X-Message-Number: 18809
From: "D Pizer" <>
Subject: A few words about Trygve, and when will ageing be cured
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:13:52 -0500

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When will aging be cured?

By: David Pizer


This depends on how you define "cured." In the most liberal sense we might say 
that aging is cured now for some people, if we think of the cure as incremental 
steps that lead to biological immortality.


1. For instance, say a person is 40 years old now, and has a potential lifespan 
(if nothing new comes along other than what is here now) of 35 more years.


2. During the next 15 years, give or take a couple, there will be more advances.
Fifteen years from now (or, from number 1 above), our cheerful prospect for 
immortality will be 55 years old. That 55 year old person, subject to the new 
technology that has been developed during the 15 years, will have a potential 
lifespan of 30 more years.


3. During the next 15 years, or so, there will be even more advances. Fifteen 
years from number 2, our happy prospect for immortality will be a very 
youthful-seeming and healthy 70 years of age. With the technology that has been 
perfected during the last 15 years, our 70 year happy prospect for immortality 
now has a potential lifespan of 50 more years, or the potential to reach what is
considered, at the present time, the maximum life span possible, or age 120.


4. During the next 50 years, reversible aging techniques will be developed, and 
our delighted old codger will begin to reverse aging and grow 
younger-looking/feeling until reaching an optimum physical condition resembling 
a 20 year old.


And those who missed out on this will be saying: "Gee, I wish I would have 
retired in Ventureville, where they all get-together every day and discuss all 
this new stuff and help each other."

--------------------

Some comments on Trygve 

By: David Pizer


I have followed Trygve's writings since he became interested in cryonics several
years ago and have met him on several occasions. Since Trygve seems interested 
in being a "public person" at least in cryonics circles, I don't think it will 
be rude to make some comments about my opinion of his activities. I really don't
know him, and my opinion is just that, an opinion.


To me, Trygve seems like a bright and enthusiastic person. Some of his ideas are
novel and may be of benefit to the movement.


His downside is that he is very strong-willed and, at least it seems to me, not 
very receptive to criticism (well-meaning or otherwise). He just doesn't seem to
listen to others, and if he does, he seems to always ignore their advice. That 
would be ok, except for the fact that Trygve has thrust himself into the public 
light and presented himself as a cryonicists. So, sometimes, there are people 
and media judging all of us by what he does. Since our lives, and our potential 
eternal lives, might be affected by what Trygve, or anyone else who calls 
themselves a cryonicist, does, we seem to have a moral right to try to influence
him when we can see that he is doing something that will harm the movement, and
therefore, our chances. But he never seems to consider anyone except himself 
and his own wants for publicity. Frankly, sometimes, (I think), he does things 
that harm all the rest of us. Therefore, he has alienated himself from most of 
the decision-makers in cryonics because they feel that he is often 
out-of-control and might do something foolish to hurt the movement.


Another example of this was the Martinots. I believe the man was advised several
times to move his wife to, (and make his arrangements with), a regular cryonics
organization. He was strong willed and refused. Now it appears that all his 
efforts were wasted.


Many times the movement tries to slow down someone who seems to be going too 
fast and not quite in the right direction. Most of us in the movement are a 
little different from "regular" people and we need special handling, at times. 
(Except, of course, me. :=)


I hope that the Martinot example will not be completely for lorn, and that we 
learn that the long established and hard-learned rules that we have now in place
are for everyone's best interest. (Rules like not freezing people on credit, 
Fight hard to get all the complicated paperwork in place before the very end, 
try to get your relatives to sign that they will not interfere, and on and on.


Another thing we learn from the few cryonics failures that come along every once
in a while, (by people that have constantly argued with the successful 
old-timers),  is that some of the old codgers, like Ettinger and Mondragon, 
Kent, Darwin, etc., when they post something on Cryonet and someone opposes 
them, if the reader can't tell who is right from the postings, then giving a 
little credit for experience might be a good thing to grant.  (Except, of 
course, if I am opposing them :=)

David Pizer


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