X-Message-Number: 1895 From: Subject: CRYONICS Attacks Date: Fri, 5 Mar 93 00:49:06 PST To Cryonet >From Steve Bridge, President Alcor Life Extension Foundation March 4, 1993 In reply to Scott Hinckley's MSG #1876 () > Due to the list I have gone from enthusiasm to cautious >monitoring in my views on cryonics. I realize that this may be a >distorted view of the true state of cryonics, but, 95%+ of the >bandwidth here is spent in internal bickering, with probably <1% >actual exchange of ideas to improve the field. I expected a >wellspring of progressive information on cryonics from this list, it >has yet to appear. Instead of careful discussion of how to improve >suspensions, based on previous experience, I find personal attacks and >mud throwing. Perhaps if I keep reading long enough I may start to >truly see hope for advance. Scott, none of this kind of internal debate occurred on the net at all before about last April. Before then it really was centered on questions about technology and sociology. One of the best and worst things about electronic mail is its immediacy. One sees something and can react immediately, and off goes a possibly ill-considered answer. Which generates back another off-the-cuff response. Also, it appears that people stay angrier longer when they are typing something on a computer than when they have to handwrite a letter. I'm not sure if it is the part of the brain being used or whether that screen radiation really IS turning us all into commie mutant monsters. More than any other time in Alcor's history, politics has dominated the thoughts of Alcor members. Perhaps I am naive about this, but I think that the majority (though perhaps not all) of the commotion is part of answering very important questions about cryonics. Answering technical questions is important and it is useful to talk about how to market the idea and sociological questions like how would people in the future react to these frozen patients. But just as important is "how does Alcor organize and run itself so that it survives into the future as a viable organization?" This is a critical question that any company or organization must solve to be successful. It is distressing to many of us that this question has to be discussed in such personal nasty tones and with the assumption on the parts of some that "if you don't agree with my way of seeing things, you are out to destroy Alcor." I've seen *mistakes* called "lies" and I've seen *carelessness* called "incompetence" and worse. This is the dark side of that active, independent, and pugnacious attitude that also held us together in our battles over the legality of cryonics during the past 5 years. These people care about the right way to do cryonics, even if many have not learned good listening or arguing techniques ("good" as in "accomplishing something for all", not as in "winning the argument.") These battles are not over, I'm sorry to say. Some people seem to take an active delight in them and even I, who decry the way things have been done on e-mail this year, occasionally get some entertainment from them (when I'm not getting irritated). Should these attitudes dissuade you from signing up for cryonic suspension? If you want a Sunday School where everyone is polite to each other and follows the flock, this is the wrong time and place. If you want a group of people willing to fight for what they believe, then you will have to accept a certain level of conflict, even the dumb stuff. I wouldn't want to spend the rest of my life (pre or post-suspension) arguing with these people; but I DO want to live. If you want to live, also, then ignore the dumb stuff, recognize that even the most argumentative person on the net has a lot of really valuable ideas, and concentrate on your own needs. Maybe part of the problem is that we need more people like you asking the right questions so we can use our brains for something besides intrigue. Please post what YOUR questions are. I certainly hope we can move on to more productive pursuits and not turn this mailing list into the personal pissing contests I see on various Forums on Compuserve (and which, I have been assured, exist on other services as well.) If you want to see our collective minds at our best, arrange with Kevin to get a look at messages on the CryoNet BEFORE last April. There were some great arguments then, too, but they were about processes and ideas, not about people and personalities. And make sure you keep reading CRYONICS Magazine from Alcor. The nasty stuff is generally dropped, although the true differences and discussions are not. To others on Cryonet: I know we will never be one big happy family. But you can see from Scott's posting as from other similar messages in the past few weeks, we are not exactly putting our best foot forward -- except to trip someone. I hope we can all learn to bite our tongues (fingernails?) more often when posting here. And the best defense to an unpleasant message is not to ignore it completely (which you folks wouldn't do for a thousand dollars a message anyway), but to post something reasonable and pertinent -- even if it is on another subject. And especially avoid those, "So you won't answer me, eh? Are you chicken?" dares. Micro-macho will get you into trouble every time. Steve Bridge Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=1895