X-Message-Number: 19137
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 21:52:06 -0700
From: "John Grigg" <>
Subject: How Dr. Gregory Stock did on the Art Bell show...
With great excitement I tuned in to the Art Bell radio show(listening
audience in the many millions!) to hear Dr. Gregory Stock be interviewed
for three hours. It turned out to be a very worthwhile experience to say the
least.
Art started out by giving a laundry list of Dr. Stock's many achievements.
Art emphasized that this was a person who was uniquely qualified
to speak on the subject of cloning and biotech. Several times Bell used the
term 'heavyhitter!'
Art initially seemed to equate cloning with only the reproductive
type. Dr. Stock gently corrected him, and gave a "primer" to his
lay audience to explain things. I could tell he was very savvy about dealing
with the media.
Stock said the overall underlying mechanisms of aging are not really
understood yet. And that it may be quite awhile until the aging
process in humans can really be reversed.
He brought up the difficulty in reengineering the genome in adult
humans. Stock sees gene mods in specific organs being done first for some time.
Early on religion was brought up. Dr. Stock explained that there
was a time when birth control and even vaccinations were considered
very unnatural and against the will of God. But in time people
realized how important they were, and both society at large and
religious organizations adapted to it. He felt theraputic cloning
and bioengineering would go through the same thing. I felt it was
an excellent point to bring up early in the interview.
When Art brought up how criticism has arisen about the use and disposal
of stem cells for research, Stock rebutted that their are REAL people
out there with REAL problems who desperately need the help stem
cell research could provide. He gave an emotionally strong delivery.
I loved Dr. Stock's line about why some people can afford to be
against genetic engineering, "life is beautiful to the healthy and
attractive, but not always to nature's failed experiments!" They
were in some ways callous words, but with a lot of truth to them.
Art's response was that twenty percent of the emails he was getting
actually claimed clones would not have souls! Bell playfully said
when the clone appears on tv it sure better not have a blank stare! lol
The heated topic of insurance companies poking their nose in personal
genome records was discussed. We all know the possible dark possibilities
there... And as Stock shared, with the price of gene chips dropping
precipitously, these matters will become more and more important.
Dr. Stock saw the scenario where people have themselves privately
screened and then buy up all the insurance they can before the any
possible bad news about their genome leaks out. The other side
to it he felt would be companies saying we will insure no one until
they allow us to pour over their genome!
Since everyone will to an extent have chinks in their "genomic armor,"
he believes this may lead to egalitarianism. Maybe?? lol
Dr. Stock will be holding the Storefront Genome Conference to discuss
these very issues. If I recall correctly it will be held at UCLA.
His comment, "there are differences in individuals and in populations
so we must get used to it" really shocked me. I could imagine some
people taking offense at him including entire populations into his statement!
Art brought up the popular notion that the wealthy will use genetic
engineering to create an even greater gulf between rich and poor.
Stock disagreed with this and felt the rich were actually allowing
themselves to be made into guinea pigs for the benefit of science!
He also briefly touched on how it would be more a "generational
thing" then a "rich vrs. poor" thing. I could imagine the wealthy
feeling very estranged with their transhuman children!
Dr. Stock felt the real gulf would be about philosophy and religion
among nations. He felt Christian nations would be at a distinct
disadvantage if they allow domestic religious arguments to hamstring
biotech research. Nations like China with a very different
religious/philosophical
outlook will not be hampered by such fears and concerns, so they
will in time greatly outstrip us.
I could tell Dr. Stock is to an extent quite the patriot. He talked
of the American character or 'constitution' and how it is in our
very nature to want to strive, explore and successfully compete.
"Americans will want to shape the future and not watch others do so without
them."
Even GE crops were discussed. This important subject was glossed
over, but Stock did say China has greatly increased their yields
by using this technology. And since they are barrelling ahead in
this area, we had better learn more.
Dr. Stock did seem to have a competitive/nationalistic streak in
him. Or maybe he was just playing up to middle america, I don't know.
"We are at a unique point of history and we must not let it slip
by us." Art continued to bring up how there were sure to be screwups
as the research continued. Dr. Stock mentioned in reply the U.S.
space program and how there were casualties to achieve our goals
of space exploration! He felt this would be no different.
Of matters relating to the singularity, Dr. Stock said the evolution
and transformation of humanity is happening at astounding speed.
And within 5-10 generations we will be very changed. He does see
things taking more time to take off then many on the extro list.
Ray Kurzweil was even mentioned! lol Dr. Stock said in almost a
derisive tone that he could not imagine Kurzweil's claim from a
discussion coming true that within the next twenty years we will
see surgical implants to enhance the capabilities of the human brain.
Stock believes we will get the impressive enhancements we need/want
from noninvasive technologies. Time for Ray Kurzweil to go on the Art Bell
show! : )
Dr. Stock very strongly felt it is a case of government self-deceit
if they believe they can have rules and committees to really control
genetic engineering. It will either happen here, or be driven underground or to
other nations.
He felt the two big dangers involving genetic engineering are government
interferance and/or a general pullback. Dr. Stock sees this technology
leading to conflict potentially worse then what even the abortion issue has so
far engendered.
Dr. Stock emphasized he wants society to have a chance to learn
about and discuss these technologies. And that is what he is trying hard to do.
He said he has faith that the world our children and grandchildren
will inherit will be wise in using these technologies. BUT, Dr.
Stock is not sure if he wants to live in the wonderful world he yearns for! LOL!
The interview ended with Art Bell saying, "Professor, you are an optimist!"
I would put this interview up there with the ones done with Bart Kosko, David
Brin, Michio Kaku and Brian Shock.
best wishes to all,
John
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