X-Message-Number: 19924 Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 08:44:29 -0400 From: Thomas Donaldson <> Subject: CryoNet #19909 - #19922 Hi Bob: What about perpetual motion? Yes, we abandoned it because we came to realize that energy could not be produced from nothing at all. But before we recognized (we collectively) the conservation laws, to look for some means of making energy from nothing was entirely reasonable. When you say that something is "totally abandoned" you also raise questions. It's now commonly accepted that perpetual motion is impossible (as a means of producing energy). Yet some people still want to work on it. Furthermore, others are constantly trying to find ways to get energy by putting in less energy than we take out --- nuclear or fusion energy would provide an excellent case. This is not the same as perpetual motion, but its basic aim, to minimize the amount of work/energy/matter/etc put out to get energy in return, remains one that many people work on. The aim was modified when we understood conservation laws, but in one way never abandoned. So what is meant by "totally abandoned"? Best wishes and long long life, Thomas Donaldson Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=19924