X-Message-Number: 19963 From: Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 19:43:56 EDT Subject: Alternatives to LEF Products In a message dated 9/1/02 2:00:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Steve Jackson writes: > I've been a Life Extension Foundation member for years because of the > cryonics connection, despite their very NON-trust-inspiring style of > marketing. But today, after almost an hour on the phone (the majority of it > listening to the advertising-on-hold recording at the Customer Service > number) I gave up. Phone sales reps should know what sort of offers are > being mailed out and should be able to do simple math. And if they can't do > those things, they should at least all tell the same story, rather than > blaming the last person I talked to. A company that botches customer > support at that most basic level is not one I'll depend on for my health. Steve, I understand your frustration. I can now speak about LEF with some credibility because I in no way, directly or indirctly benefit from their revenue stream. Nor do I have a close personal relationship with any of the principals or researchers that would interfere with the reasonable objectivity of the suggestions and information I'm about to pass along. FIRST, the kind of wacko employee problems you report are common almost anywhere today and are especially common in both the retail and wholesale vitamin businesses. LEF's problems have probably been exacerbated by the sudden death of a key employee a few months ago; a smart, highly knowledgeable man who will be hard to replace. SECOND, I've visited or had detailed contact with NOW, Twinlab and GNC. All have serious problems. Its rumored that Twinlab (one of my favorite companies) is having serious financial difficulties and that QC has suffered as a consequence. I don't know the details but have heard this from several sources and have been told of one switch in a raw materials supplier which IMHO represents a step down in quality. THIRD: On the positive side LEF supports its claims with peer reviewed literature better than any other major nutriceuticals company out there. That doesn't mean its all good, but at least they take the time and money to do this. And yes, I find it done in an obnoxious way on the phone and with their some of their product placements in their magazine, but clearly most of their customers don't. FOURTH: On the negative side, LEF has left (for many years) some very serious concerns unaddressed. When I package post arrest medications for cryopatients one of my major challenges is to keep the NUMBER of individual drugs or combos to be given to an absolute minimum 12 gang stop-cocks are already being used! My problems is that, dry or wet, I can't package a lot of drugs I'd like put together into one preparation. Even in the dry state under vacuum there is chemical interaction over time. I've come up with some clever solutions to these problems (i.e., polyester tea bags that can be heat sealed with an iron and separate dry powders in the same vial yet allow mixing when water is added), but it is STILL a big problem. A preparation like Life Extension Mix scares the s---- out of me. There are several ingredients in LEF Mix that I can't dry pack together because they react to form who knows what; all I know is I get bright orange liquid out of formerly clear chemicals that smells bad and is acutely toxic (retching, hypotension) to rabbits IV where the freshly combined, mixed and administered agents are not. I personally doubt, but can't prove that combinations of many nutrients into a "mix" results in an unstable product; especially in the presence of highly reactive and catalytic trace minerals like zinc, iron and selenium. This problem is not confined to LEF Mix but in theory to Twinlab Daily One and other combo products where there is lots of high temperature shelf time with ingredients packed tightly in high surface area preparations primed to interact with each other. FIFTH: LEF has funded major studies to evaluate the effects of combinations of nutrients on lifespan (two recently at the University of Wisconsin and the University of California at Riverside, respectively). Many groups of tested animals have included vitamins and supplements without drugs. Interestingly, LEF Mix has never been the subject of one of these studies. Despite nearly a million dollars spent to evaluate nutrient and drug-nutrient combos LEF has never validated the product they call LIFE EXTENSION Mix to extend even mean lifespan by just a modest amount -- not even in fruit flies. This has always bothered me a great deal. For this reason I've never taken LEF Mix beyond a short time and I had problems with it; nausea, malaise and back pain. However, clearly most people do not have problems and the product is a popular one. SIXTH, with the above caveats I can say that many of their mono or smaller combo products are high quality and high value. Their CoQ10 with tocotrienols and their new product Chrono-Forte are probably two of the best antiaging nutriceuticals out there. Similarly their CLA, GLA/DHA and products like phopsphotydylserine appear to be of high and consistent quality. > But I digress :-) > > Anyone have a recommendation for a general dietary supplement to replace > the LEF's Life Extension Mix? I'll certainly do my own homework, but am > also quite interested in input from others. If I had to suggest anything it would still be Twinlab's Daily One without Iron (for healthy males and non-menstruating women). If you want to take mono supplements with this I strongly suggest at least 2 g of acetyl-l-carnitine (divided doses) and 200 mg of alpha lipoic acid per day. I base the last two recommendations on personal experience and on watching its effects on over 15 people I know who have started taking these nutrients and reported their effects. In several cases I've had the opportunity to observe changes first hand in cognitive functioning after people I know (including my parents) have started taking these supplements. NOW is one of the cheaper and more reliable sources for these nutrients as an alternative to LEF. However, keep in mind LEF will probably continue to have cutting edge compounds available first and with better quality. Since new drugs or nutrients can hurt as well as help (old ones too, for that matter) caution is always advised. Finally, a few words to reflect on. Hormone replacement therapy (HRT) for women was a widely accepted treatment in medicine. Very large studies relative to most vitamin/nutrient studies had been done to validate the risk to benefit ratio. These studies were flawed in often subtle but critical ways. Much of what LEF and the nutriceutical community in general recommends is on evidence that bears little or no relationship to the real world. In fact, if you took everything recommended in an issue of LEF Magazine there's be no room left to eat much food! The best recommendation is to take as little as you can and as much as you need. That's often a hard thing to know. As examples only, I offer the following: If you have a family or personal history of breast cancer or prostate cancer it might well make sense to take nutriceuticals targeted at these illnesses. However, if you have a small (normal) prostate, a low PSA and no family history of prostate cancer you might want to wait to take nutriceuticals aimed at preventig/reversing prostate disease until you show some BPH on physical exam... One area where I really disagree with LEF and most of mainstream medicine is on the value of electron beam CT (EBCT) of the chest, neck and head to look for evidence of heart and cerebrovascular disease. I think everyone with a family history should have one of these at age 40; 45 at latest. Those without a history and good lipids and other risk factors (don't smoke, low homocysteines) can wait till 45 or 50. I personally think the radiation exposure is worth the decreased morbidity and mortality from these number one killers. More to the point, if LEF had recommended this procedure instead of panning it, they might still have a valuable employee and you might not be looking for another place to shop for vitamins. Mike Darwin Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=19963