X-Message-Number: 20036
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 15:36:25 -0700
From: James Swayze <>
Subject: Spinal repair, Dresden, if I met a talking light
References: <>

> Message #20030
> Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 10:02:32 -0400
> From: Thomas Donaldson <>
> Subject: CryoNet #20024 - #20029

> So Christopher Reeve's paralysis, even with out the advanced medical
> treatments someday available from work on generation of new neurons,
> may easily show some slight signs of repair.

In the very least he remains prepared for implant treatment with subtle limbs,
muscles less atrophied and tendons not shortened from disuse.

> Unfortunately, if we accept the most common theory of how memories
> work, generation of new neurons to replace those lost by the events
> before "death" and suspension would not also repair the MEMORIES
> in the regenerated brains.

Unless... What I'm referring to here is Ray Kurzweil's contention that memories
are holographic in nature. So like a hologram that gets fragmented each piece
contains the whole image but at a lower resolution. In this sense then the new
neurons might learn the pattern needed to reform the damaged area from the
adjacent neuron's holographic memory image so to keep the memory intact.

> I'll add, though, that if we accept that
> neurons go through a slow (and sometimes fast) turnover, even in
> some but not all regions of our brain, then this also raises questions
> for the most common theory of how our memory works.

Are you alluding here to what I just said above?

> For those who
> don't know about this theory, fundamentally it says that our memories
> are stored in the pattern of connections of our neurons, which stays
> fixed for our whole lifetime. And generation of new neurons raises
> questions for this theory because, after all, the new neurons must
> form new connections or they will soon disappear.

Which will disappear, the neurons newly formed or the memories?

I have for a long time wondered about the fantasies of full immersion virtual
reality where one downloads the memories and experiences of another individual.
If our current theory of memory as you outline above holds true then it would

seem to me that person A's memory of 'sky diving in the Bahama's' located at say
3 dimensional vectors X=-3300, Y=5532, Z=9865 might overwrite person B's
'throwing ball with Dad' memory at the same vectors. Not a good idea and
problematic for sharing memories VR dreamers.

> Yes, I am an interested party here. I believe this issue is important
> to cryonics, too,

As can be expected I too am an interested party. Of particular interest to me is
the fact that 23 years ago I envisioned having my feet strapped to an exercise

bike with an attached motor so to keep my legs moving for a few hours a day. 
was for three reasons, one to just keep my legs subtle, two was to keep the
nerves involved and third was to stem the growth of the heterotrophic
ossification, the bone disease I have spoken of before. None of my doctors were
interested in that idea and the government sure wasn't ready to spend 500k per

year like Reeves spends for extensive rehabilitation where he is suspended above
a treadmill with several therapists taking his legs through the motions of

The theory in what they are doing with Reeves is that the motion keeps the

nervous system firing (perhaps through reverse feedback--much like what causes 

spasticity) and that this promotes nerve regeneration. I had a gut feeling about
this 23 years ago and now it appears to be plausible. I do wonder what prompted
the professionals involved to theorize this. After all they had the education
that I did not that told them it was impossible whereas I in my ignorance saw
hope. I wish I had stuck with my idea.



> Message #20031
> Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 09:44:44 -0700
> From: Natasha Vita-More <>
> Subject: NEWS: Christopher Reeves
> Excerpt from Entertainment News:
> September 10, 2002 | Since the day he was paralyzed in 1995,
> CHRISTOPHER REEVE swore that he would walk again. Quadriplegics
> are often counseled not to hold on to false hope.


> Doctors now say that with signs of some recovery, the man who became famous 
> flying may
> one day walk again."

He certainly will walk again if we can keep the government out of legislating
scientific and technological research. Otherwise he'd better get a cryonics
policy but soon!



> Message #20032
> Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 09:51:50 -0700
> From: Natasha Vita-More <>
> Subject: JOHN PERRY 9/11/02
> I was thinking of John Perry today, a former Alcor member who didn't find
> the time to resign up after an untimely lapse.  John was an attorney and
> policeman in New York City and volunteered to help on 9/11.  His body was
> found.
> http://membres.lycos.fr/jwperry/index-1.html
> http://www.livejournal.com/talkread.bml?itemid=437161&journal=vyoma
> With permission:
> "September 11: Enough Day

Natasha I just want to say before I comment that I know you did not write this
article so please don't take personally any criticism of it I am about to make.

>  Let's remember the victims of the Holocaust and of the firebombing of 
> too.

With all due respect to the modern day peoples of Germany I must set some facts
straight here. First though I want to say that I agree wholeheartedly with the
article as far as it is well past time to reduce "Nationalism" and high time we
consider ourselves peoples of a planet rather than of this or that faction,
nation, religion or whatever.

That said, I think it was unwise for the author of this article to include

Dresden as "innocent" and "dying through no fault of their own" and especially 
in the same sentence juxtaposing it to the victims of the holocaust. Many have
tried to make out the firebombing of Dresden as an Allied atrocity because
200,000 lost their lives there in one fell swoop. I wonder how those apologists
compare and value the six million holocaust lives lost compared to the 200,000?

People have to be held accountable for the actions of their government. Right 
there is great concern for the innocent civilians of Iraq living under the
oppression of Saddam Hussein. Innocent? Look at some point one has to get to a
moral absolute. We tend to cut some slack for those held at gun point and so
called "forced to" commit atrocities under orders of their superiors. Baloney!
There is such a thing as a personal moral absolute. I don't care if a luger was
pointed at my head, in some similar situation, I would not gun down innocent
people just to save my own life. I would know it was fundamentally wrong. If I

did not realize it as fundamentally wrong I am still not therefore excluded from
personal responsibility. Some things are known fundamentally, instinctually.

Likewise the non Jewish people of Germany were not innocent victims of their
government, "dying through no fault of their own". They put that government in

place. No matter how dangerous to oppose that government once it was established
it should still have been opposed and opposed widely. Instead the "innocent"

Dresdens closed their eyes to the atrocities of their government while welcoming
economic prosperity at the least level and super racedom at the worst level!

The same goes for the citizens of Iraq. They are responsible for the government
they allow to rule over them. If they all stood in opposition that government
would soon disappear. Look, Extropes listen up and listen good! Go read Howard
Bloom's excerpt from his "The Lucipher Principle--A Scientific Expedition Into

The Forces Of History" http://www.howardbloom.net/islam.htm. Islam is THE 
threat to our technological paradise dreams. The Quran does not allow, not one

single bit, for the existence of anyone non moslem. It plainly instructs 
to actively kill infidels, especially Jews, Christians and Atheists. All the

real, imminent and serious threats of weapons of mass destruction in the hands 
Saddam "Insane" aside for the moment, something has to be done to stem the tide
of radical terrorist ludditism that goes by the name of Fundamentalist Islam.
Does making a clear statement in Iraq work to this end? Enough said.



> Message #20033
> From: 
> Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 16:41:47 EDT
> Subject: Re: CryoNet #20024 - #20029
> suppose god did not say "i bring you truth" but came disguised as a scientist
> saying, i will show you a way to seek truth. (and came in a shiny new force
> field with pretty multicolored rays shining in all directions).  would you
> try out his "way" for oh, say, 20 minutes and then give it up as a hoax?  how
> much effort would you put into trying to understand it? fifteen generations?

I'd figure it was a flashback from my youthful exuberance and go on about my
business never giving it another thought! In the absence of causation for
flashbacks I'd figure it as a temporal lobe seizure and again go on about my
business never giving it another thought.

Cryonics Institute of Michigan Member!
The Immortalist Society Member!
The Society for Venturism Member!

MY WEBSITE: http://www.geocities.com/~davidpascal/swayze/ While there follow the
links to photos of me and some of my artwork and a radio interview on Dr.  J's
ChangeSurfer Radio program with me and the founder of cryonics Prof. Robert
Ettinger, author of "The Prospect of Immortality".

A RELIGION I actually recommend: 

A FAVORITE quote: Last lines of the first Star Trek the Next Generation movie.
Capt.  Picard: "What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived,
after all Number One... we're only mortal."
Will Ryker: "Speak for yourself captain, I intend to live forever!"

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