X-Message-Number: 2046 Date: 01 Apr 93 04:14:32 EST From: "Steven B. Harris" <> Subject: CRYONICS Peltier Heaven Dear Cryonet: Look, I originally proposed the design with heat conductor at liquid nitrogen temp, separated from the -135 C space by insulating foam to get the proper thermal gradient, in order to simplify things, and allow liquid nitrogen to be used as primary coolant. If, however, we are complicate things and have a bunch of Peltier effect coolers* keep our liquid nitrogen liquid, then let me point out that we might as well use the coolers to primarily keep our ethyl chloride vat slurried at the higher temp of -135, and forget the liquid nitrogen completely! In such a design we'd have to have much thicker aluminum heat conductors radiating from the central ethyl chloride heat dump out to our hexagonal cryogrub cells ("cryogrub" = frozen TV dinner for whatever creatures come to inhabit the future Earth...), and essentially no insulation between conductor and the inside of our cells at all. Still, it would be a much simpler design than one that had to deal with the 60 C temp gradient of LN2 to -135 all the time. If the purpose of using liquid nitrogen as primary coolant is for thermal balast, this can all be done with ethyl chloride. If the purpose of using liquid nitrogen is to have something as backup if power fails, this is still very possible: just immerse a heat exchange coil in our ethyl chloride pool (or our vat of vitrified silicone "silcool" containing sealed ethyl chloride dinosaur eggs, if you like that safer design better), and when the power fails you can still run liquid nitrogen through the thing from a tank until all the ethyl chloride is frozen and the temperature begins to drop. Then stop until temp begins to rise a bit again. This is best a manual job, I think (designing a reliable system that would do this automatically year in and year out I'm sure would be a bigger peice of engineering than it first appears), but in the special case of a powerout emergency such a manual job performed every few hours (or days?) doesn't seem excessive. Even easier, of course, would be to have a backup generator running on deisel, as has been suggested. Of course, all this may be academic. Peltier-effect cooling modules are available to cool down to -50 C (perhaps an 80 C differential) but I've never seen one that will do to -135 C, let alone -196 C. Nor is it clear to me that you can simply stack them-- although this should work in theory, in practice there may well be absolute material limitations. We'll need some expert advice (let me see what I can do to dig it up). If such things as -196 Peltier modules were available, they'd perhaps be of great benefit to cryonics NOW, in that we could simply stick a few completely through the foam insulator caps on all our Dewars, in order to pump some heat out of them electrically. That would keep LN2 boiloff down, which not only might be enough to pay for the Peltier piles in a few years time (since as has been pointed out electric cooling is a lot cheaper than liquid nitrogen cooling), but also (maybe more importantly even if the economics are bad) would be a great safety feature during long power outages, since (again) it's a lot easier to stockpile diesel oil to run generators than it is to stock liquid nitrogen. And the capital costs would be considerably less than for buying our own small (room-sized) deisel generator driven liquid air plant, which is our next step as is. When it comes to LN2, best conserve rather than make anew. Waste not, want not. Steve * Peltier effect: a sort of reverse thermocouple effect, where application of voltage to a junction made of two materials of dissimilar electromotive potential, results in heating of one material and cooling of the other (i.e., heat is pumped "uphill" against a temperature gradient by the power of the electricity). This essential refrigeration function is done by a solid state module working on low voltage, and without moving parts (neat, eh?) although a fan is typically added to the design for better heat sink efficiency (to keep the hot side closer to room temp). If you want to fool with them, bismuth based Peltier devices are used in all the "auto cigarette-lighter socket powered" beer coolers that can be found on the market now for around $125 (check your local Home Depo or large camping or hardware store). S. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=2046