X-Message-Number: 20721
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 02:46:50 -0800
From: James Swayze <>
Subject: Things that make you go, hmmmm.

I think now with hindsight that had I known that the Raelians were
involved in trying to clone a human where their stated goal is to
achieve immortality via brain transplant, and without detailed
explanation given that I am yet aware of--such as creating anencephalic
bodies rather than killing a human being for its body, I might not have
written my letter to Reeves. Now, if he even read my letter in favor of
human cloning, he might think I am a Raelian, which I most definitely am
NOT. No doubt, sometime soon perhaps, the ignorant unwashed will put
immortalists and Raelians in the same lump because of the word
immortality and the fact that, "oooooooooh them there bunch are all into
science... every dang one <spit sound>".

The odds on this going well are not good. On the other hand maybe it
will take a so called 'Religious group' along with whatever ecumenical
respect the other religions will give them free gratis for being a
"religion", as opposed to those 'mostly atheistic demon scientists', to
sneak human cloning past the godawful. Maybe the Raelians are seizing
the moment before any actual cloning ban laws are passed. Maybe they
seek to, with extreme luck, produce one quickly now while they can so
that in so doing it may take away the 'oooh', 'eeeew' and 'ick' factors.
These emotional knee jerks will surely dissipate the first glimpse the
unwashed get of that cute little, normal in appearance and apparently
possessing a human soul, baby clone. Let me stress again extreme luck.
Even so according to the bio ethics types, if as they say problems may
not show until late into adulthood, then the jury will be out for a very
longtime. Then should the clone die of AUTS (anything under the sun)
everyone will be sure that it failed after all, even if it happens at
age 90.

Who knows how this will play out but things are about to get very
interesting to watch barring this being a hoax of course. I think one
thing is certain. The subject of clone rights and just how much of a
body it takes to count as a human being is about to get top billing in
discussion, that is if anyone is paying attention to the Raelian's
proposal to brain transplant themselves into clones. Unless they are
talking about anencephalic cloned or engineered bodies wherein no
cognizant being is created, I don't condone it. Perhaps only the most
hard core illiterate religimaniac will adhere to the notion that clones,
by way of not being created by ''gawd', could not have a soul and
therefore possess no rights. I hope that most thinking people will
disagree with this notion... but who knows? We'll soon see I guess.

Anyway, here's the news flash...

[begin]
Cloning group to make 'major
announcement'

From Miriam Falco CNN Friday, December 27, 2002 Posted: 2:37 AM EST
(0737 GMT)

HOLLYWOOD, Florida (CNN) -- A controversial group that has claimed to be
able and willing to clone a human has scheduled a news conference for
Friday to make a "major announcement," according to the group's
spokesperson.

Brigitte Boisselier, the scientific director of Clonaid, is scheduled to
make the announcement Friday at 9 a.m.  Last week, Boisselier told some
news organizations that the birth of a cloned baby girl is imminent.

Boisselier has told CNN in the past that she will not make an
announcement until a healthy baby is born.  She told a congressional
committee last year that she believed she had the knowledge to produce a
human clone in the near future.

Clonaid, which calls itself the "first human cloning company," was
founded by a religious group called the Raelians in 1997.  Boisselier is
a bishop in the Raelian movement, which professes that life on Earth was
created through genetic engineering by extraterrestrials.

The Raelians believe their spiritual leader Rael is a direct descendant
of these aliens.  Rael told CNN in July 2001 that the long-term goal for
human cloning is to live forever.  Rael says cloning a baby is only the
first step: Eventually the group wants to learn how to clone an adult,
then "transfer the brain to the clone."

Boisselier says the immediate purpose for cloning is to help infertile
couples.  Last November, she told CNN she was "indeed doing human cloned
embryos and we have many cell divisions," but she wouldn't confirm any
pregnancies.

Group has not released any data on research

To make a clone, scientists first take an egg and remove all of its
genetic material.
Then the nucleus of a cell -- any cell in the body -- is taken from the
individual to be cloned and inserted into the hollowed-out egg.

The cell is then given a jolt of electricity or put in a chemical bath
to activate cell division -- essentially tricking the cell into doing
what a fertilized egg would normally do.  Then the embryo is implanted
into a woman's uterus to be carried to term.

It is unknown which exact procedure Clonaid is using, because it has not
published or released any data about its research.

Boisselier has not revealed the location of her current lab, only to say
it is no longer in the United States.  She used to have a lab in West
Virginia, but the U.S.  Food and Drug Administration visited the lab and
shut it down.

Scientists so far have successfully cloned sheep, cows, goats, mice,
pigs and a rare wild ox.  But human cloning is controversial, because
the experience with animal cloning has shown a lot of potential for
things to go wrong.

'One shouldn't do this,' biologist says of human cloning

Many animal cloners -- including Ian Wilmut, the Scottish researcher who
successfully cloned the first animal, Dolly the sheep, in 1997 --
disapprove of human cloning.  Wilmut has said it took 276 failed
attempts before Dolly was successfully cloned.

"It is not responsible at this stage to even consider the cloning of
humans, " said Rudolf Jaenisch, a biologist at MIT's Whitehead Institute
for Biological Research, which clones mice.

Janeisch said that even if a human clone appears healthy, it may not be
once it gets older.  Cloning a human at this point, he said, without
knowing more about why things go wrong, is "essentially using humans as
guinea pigs, and one shouldn't do this."

According to Dr.  Jon Hill, a veterinarian who successfully cloned cows
at Texas A&M University, even clones who appear normal at birth often
develop problems afterward.

"Their livers, their lungs, their heart, their blood vessels are often
abnormal after birth," Hill said.

Few legal prohibitions on human cloning

The Raelians are not the only group claiming to actively try to clone a
human.

Italian doctor Severino Antinori made several announcements in recent
months, claiming that a woman was carrying a human clone that would be
born in January 2003.  And former University of Kentucky professor Panos
Zavos has also announced plans to clone a human, but he told CNN earlier
this year he had not successfully created an embryo yet.

Scientists and bioethicists have questioned whether any of these groups
have the ability to clone a human.  Art Caplan, director of the Center
for Bioethics at the University of Pennsylvania, has said in the past
that "we don't know how" to accomplish human cloning.

Legally, there's very little to stop scientists from cloning.  In
January, the National Academy of Sciences recommended a ban on human
cloning, but only four states --
California, Michigan, Louisiana and Rhode Island -- ban any type of
cloning research.

The FDA claims it has jurisdiction over human cloning based on the
Public Health Service and Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act.  It says it would
regulate the cloning process like a drug.
[end]

James
--
Cryonics Institute of Michigan Member!
The Immortalist Society Member!
The Society for Venturism Member!

MY WEBSITE: http://www.geocities.com/~davidpascal/swayze/ While there
follow the links to photos of me and some of my artwork and a radio
interview on Dr.  J's ChangeSurfer Radio program with me and the father
of cryonics Prof.  Robert Ettinger, author of "The Prospect of
Immortality".
A RELIGION I actually recommend: http://www.venturist.org
A FAVORITE quote: Last lines of the first Star Trek the Next Generation
movie.
Capt.  Picard: "What we leave behind is not as important as how we've
lived, after all Number One, we're only mortal."
Will Ryker: "Speak for yourself captain, I intend to live forever!"

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