X-Message-Number: 20848
From: "John de Rivaz" <>
References: <>
Subject: Re: Progress fatigue
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:06:04 -0000

> From: "Mark Plus" <>
> Subject: Progress fatigue
> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 09:31:11 -0800
>
> I'm also struck by how our society now seems to emphasize hedonistic goods
> over survival goods. We always seem to come up with the money to produce
> mountains of junk food, pop music CD's, novels about bible prophecy and
> similar useless things; while at the same time we've let our border
> protection, education, public health, physical infrastructure and other
> boring but necessary things fall apart from lack of funds and diligence.

I think a strong reason for this is that the purchase of hedonistic goods
and services can be an individual decision, whereas the funding of
scientific research or paying for health facilities is an authoritarian
issue. Even if begging can enable some funds to be collected for these aims,
there is no feedback in the same way that there is if you buy a rattling
good novel about biblical prophesy or some other irrational topic. As long
as the novel has an internal logic, it is still a good read.

There was some feedback in purchasing stocks, as long as these stocks go up.
You could purchase stock in a bio technology research and development
company, such as the Trans Time spin off BioTime. But most people are
unwilling to keep their investment even through a few months downturn, and
lack of shareholder support can close these companies. They rely on a good
quotation to obtain credit and additional funding from the financial
markets. There is nothing the individual can do when the market falls -- it
is beyond the means of most individuals or even a "concert party" of people
such as readers of this list, to support the quotation. At present the
market is in the middle of a period of years of downturn.

Just giving your hard earned cash to strangers (even directors of cryonics
service providers come into this category for most people) because "they
know best" is never going to provide any feedback at all. I know logically
that *if* cryonics works the feedback has the potential of being infinite.
Acquiescing to money being taken by the tax authorities is really just
buying protection -- they will "knock you over" if you don't. Of course the
US and the UK and probably other governments are funding nanotech and other
research, but as has been pointed out in this list it is possible that they
will direct research away from saving individual lives as opposed to saving
the life of their party, religion and **after that** their country. Also the
percentage of tax funds that actually get to research is minimal.

The Life Extension Foundation is an organisation that backs cryonics. It
also offers a product that it claims to be value for money. At the same time
the LEF make profits that are adequate to make very substantial gifts to a
cryonics service provider, sustained over a long period of time. Their
products give customers something in hand. But even then there is the debate
as to whether nutritional supplements are any better than a healthy diet.
But here my point is that even with a pill (that some people think is
useless) to see and swallow, there is some sort of feedback that is not
present in merely putting coins in the begging hat.

I do often despair at Christmas time when all the mail order catalogues come
in, with for example headscarves at UKP500 ($750) or expensive but ludicrous
decorative items, or absurd electronic gadgets.

But I really don't see how the sort of civilisation that seems logical -- ie
everyone living austere lives and sending all their cash to an immortality
foundation instead of buying trashy novels or musical Father Christmas
decorations and so on -- is very different to communism or austere religious
cults. There is I suppose one difference, in that if the research worked
within the natural lifespan of the individuals involved they would have
plenty of time to indulge themselves in the future. But members of the
communist party probably thought the same. Didn't they have five year plans,
after the end of which they would get jam on their bread? Don't religious
sects carry the promise that an austere life leads to an eternity in heaven?
Research is more sensible than communism, and communism more sensible than
belief in the supernatural, but  all donation systems are still in the same
mind set.

I have no idea whether there is any answer besides the hair shirt, but that
I am sure will never work.

--
Sincerely, John de Rivaz:  http://John.deRivaz.com for websites including
Cryonics Europe, Longevity Report, The Venturists, Porthtowan, Alec Harley
Reeves - inventor, Arthur Bowker - potter, Holistics, de Rivaz genealogy,
Nomad .. and more

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