X-Message-Number: 20920
From: 
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 13:22:05 EST
Subject: Re: CryoNet #20905 Nano repair

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Francois said:

> So I would say that a conservative estimate for a
> repair time would be on the order of an hour, probably less.
> 

My estimate was in the minutes range, I see I was rather optimist, but at 
this level of technological progress in that domain this is not a big 
disagreement

>>So a nano repair device must
>>be nearly as big as a cell. Is this true? if not why?
>
>That is not true. For starters, a cell's volume is mostly water, and water
>is not actually needed in the design of nanodevices
If you have some moving parts, you need some room for them. My idea was that 
a nanorepair device may have to work on small molecules, big and very big 
ones ( for example, cartilage are made from micrometer sized molecules, as 
big as a bacterium). It must too repair some supra molecular structures, such 
membranes. If the repair process takes place in solid envionment, how to 
repair a membrane without a scafolding as big as the cell itself?

>A functionning repair nanodevice could be the size a mitochondrion, or even 
smaller, >and thus fit very comfortably inside a cell.
 
See above, so the nanodevice don't repair cell membranes or hyaluronic 
cartilage molecules, what will do that?

>The cryonics patients
>will be frozen in liquid nitrogen. A nano device can be designed to work in
>such a cold environment. They can therefore effect repairs on what will be a
>solid and static object, the frozen cell. This will give them all the time
>they need to proceed. Of course, a way to thaw the repaired body safely will
>have to be divised. That is not a trivial problem.

How do you put the nanodevices in side the body if it is frozen solid? I 
assume you have to mine out all water ice outside cells. This is a complex 
way to make freeze drying. The biggest drawback of freeze drying is that it 
let a structure of extraordinary low mechanical resistance. A small shock and 
everything goes to dust. I assume you must do that in a small domain and then 
fill it with some liquid product, for example propane so you can freeze dry 
and repair the next section...?

>As to how to put them in, if they
>are of the self replicating kind, you only have to start with one and
>provide it with the raw material it needs to replicate. Through the "magic"
>of exponential growth, you will soon have the needed number of nanodevices,
>wich will then proceed to move to their intended locations on their own. Of
>course, the whole procedure will require very sophisticated artificial
>intelligence programs to control it.

If they are self replicating, where come from the raw material to make them? 
Do they scavenge a part of the body? If only one in billions of billion 
escape the reproductive control, it will multiply until it a eaten the whole 
body. Is that nanotech cancer? I think the idea of a machine eating you from 
inside even on a partial basis is not good publicity. Personnaly, I would 
preffer a system not eating me.

>Aging and desease will be a thing of the past. And there will be far less 
than ten
>pounds of them.

Given that we are 90 percent water, and 2/3 of what remain is plain 
structure,(bones,...) the nanotech mass is similar to the dry content of all 
our cells. Scavenging to build that would be very extensive. What are the 
advantage of that complex and far futuristic technology as compared to 
simpler and nearly doable cell remplacement by cultivated stem cells?

How scavenging can be used in the brain? That seems very hazardous for memory 
recovery. I would think that brain must be restored without adding or 
removing part...?

I understand you want to make repair at low, liquid nitrogen temperature, 
didn't you think a first step would be to get ride of the solid state and use 
liquid propane? Keeping it under moderate pressure, the body could be warmed 
up to the domain of liquid water in the final step.

Yvan Bozzonetti.

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