X-Message-Number: 21187
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 14:15:52 -0800
From: James Swayze <>
Subject: Normal uses of respirocytes, etc.
References: <>

> Message #21176
> Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 07:41:01 -0500
> From: Thomas Donaldson <>
> Subject: CryoNet #21167 - #21174
>
> For Mr. Kluytmans, again:
>
> I have read Drexler, but not Freitas. Your comments on respirocytes
> are fine, but in no way answer my problems with them. My central
> problem deals with their present ABSENCE. If you, or Freitas, or
> Drexler actually makes a respirocyte (WITH systems to make many
> more) then we can see how well they do in tests against our blood ---
> not just our red blood cells, but all of it.

Again, it's not against blood, not a competition but rather working with, I
doubt anyone--save for uploaders, fancies having gray blood.

> Let's suppose that you actually have such nanodevices. Fine. The
> very first problem that comes to MY mind is that of whether or not
> such powerful devices will prove normally useful at all. Even if
> you have them and they have passed all normal tests with flying
> colors, they sound as if they would have abilities that in normal
> living give someone nothing at all. Perhaps firefighters or space
> explorers, yes, but not in normal life.

Thomas, if you like I can loan you my copy of Robert Freitas' book
"Nanomedicine" wherein I am sure he can answer your many objections. As to
"normal" uses one that Ralph Merkle talks of often is his little story of a man
using respirocytes that has a heart attack. Here paraphrased with homage to
Ralph's humor.

Patient:
"Hello, doctor Jones?"

Doctor:
"Yes"

Patient:
"I was having my workout and when I finished I noticed my heart had stopped."

Doctor:
"When did this occur?"

Patient:
"Probably about an hour ago, funny but I did not notice it my workout was so
intense."

Doctor:
"Well you should come in soon so we can restart it and repair any damage. How
soon can you get here?"

Patient:
"Well I haven't had lunch yet, I'd like to get a sandwich first."

Doctor:
"Well fudging on the safe side you've likely got another 2-1/2 hours minimum on
your respirocytes so I think you'll be fine getting a sandwich, just don't push
your luck with traffic."

Patient:
"Ok doctor, I'll be there right after lunch."

How's that for normal everyday usefulness? Only this one is enough for normal
uses but I'm sure a little more lateral thinking can think of others. How about
people that faint from standing up too quickly. How about pilots that blackout

from heavy G loading in tight turns? Respirocytes might be capable of overcoming
the effects of gravity by swimming against it or simply their presence in what
little blood remains, not all of it drains from the brain in G-lock situations,
might be enough with their extra oxygen capacity to keep the pilot awake during
such brief maneuvers. How about death from excessive blood loss? Here again a

few R's go a long way in dwindling amounts of a person's blood, at least to keep
the brain alive and enough to keep the major organs functioning long enough for
other measures to take effect.

> The main reason our
> circulatory system has gone as far as it has is that to go further
> wouldn't help anything at all.

That's debatable as seen above.

> Again, we haven't become space
> explorers, so someday we may need such abilities.

As long as a anything we think of can save lives we therefore need them now.

> I make this
> point on the assumption that you don't run into problems making
> them work in the first place. That sounds to me like a very strong
> assumption.
>
> Evolution has over millenia and millions of years worked to optimize
> our designs. It is precisely because we can now overcome, with our
> technology, all the things that killed people before they reached
> the age of 50 that elimination of aging begins to look useful.


Yes, something our computerized technology will allow but that evolution has not

yet achieved, in fact evolution causes aging and age related death precisely for

the process of evolution because evolution would slow to a creep if older beings
did not get out of the way for younger. This no longer applies to human beings,

however. Now that we have the keys to evolution in our own hands, indeed I would
say that natural selection for human beings ended with the development of
society long ago when we began to artificially pick and choose who could and
could not marry along societal rules and mores rather than simply the criterion
of being physically fittest.

> What other advances might do I don't know, but I would strongly
> suggest that we'd do better to improve our thinking ability
> (which we must first UNDERSTAND, not now the case) than to
> improve our red blood cells or any other part of our circulatory
> system.

I won't argue with that except that for some things we don't need to know the
why and how of. For instance suppose a disease attacks the outer membranes of
cells. It likely is some particular protein eater or something like. But if we
have nanotech we don't need to know why or what causes it, which protein eater
it is or what protein it likes, we just need to know what the cell should look
like and make it so again.

> As for providing means to remain without breathing for a much
> longer time, the companies working on blood substitutes will
> no doubt provide such means years before Freitas's respirocytes
> ever come about. Doing so would not be a big step from making
> WORKING substitutes for red blood cells, and to judge from all
> the features you want to add to them, actually SMALLER devices.
> (Normal metabolism does not contain computers. It uses enzymes
> with shapes which allow them to react to changes with a change
> in what they do. The individual devices are much smaller, but
> it is their combination which does the job).

Yes, but normal enzyme using processes or protein using often go awry, consider
prion disease. They are dumb. Something we can make to have computing ability
won't be dumb. Does that not suggest it would be better? It need not in every
case replace but rather augment, control, keep healthy, make to not so dumbly
fail or go awry.

James
--
Cryonics Institute of Michigan Member!
The Immortalist Society Member!
The Society for Venturism Member!


MY WEBSITE: http://www.geocities.com/~davidpascal/swayze/ While there follow the
links to photos of me and some of my artwork and a radio interview on Dr.  J's
ChangeSurfer Radio program with me and the father of cryonics Prof.  Robert
Ettinger, author of "The Prospect of Immortality".
A RELIGION I actually recommend: http://www.venturist.org
A FAVORITE quote: Last lines of the first Star Trek the Next Generation movie.
Capt.  Picard: "What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived,
after all Number One, we're only mortal."
Will Ryker: "Speak for yourself captain, I intend to live forever!"

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