X-Message-Number: 21247
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 00:09:08 -0800
From: James Swayze <>
Subject: Respirocyte reparte
References: <>

This is late because I had a visitor for a week.

> Message #21194
> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 08:15:37 -0500
> From: Thomas Donaldson <>
> Subject: CryoNet #21179 - #21192
>
> For James Swayze:
>
> I began my discussion of respirocytes by pointing out that that they
> did not now EXIST. This makes their evaluation in comparison with
> present ideas for similar systems to be quite difficult, since after
> all dreams always turn out better than reality. Nor do I think that
> any amount of previous calculation will solve that problem.


Well at one point the same could be said for Apollo rocketry that took us to the
moon but we still planned it out well
in advance.

> Your note raises lots of issues, more than I can go through briefly.
> I would be happy to BUY Freitas's book, if I knew where to go to
> do so.

Ah, but mine has this neat little autograph! ;)

> However I will begin with a basic issue. Evolution has NOT CEASED.


I said "Natural Selection" had ceased. Now one may wish to redefine natural 
selection to now encompass all of our

societal interruptions to the natural process and to include all of our 
technology, such as people being able to

reproduce that could not before but now can with invitro but that is a job for 
semantics. I did not say _evolution_
had ended. I said it is now in our own hands.

> It simply bears on different traits than those it bore on before.
> If I choose to make a modification of myself, and this modification
> doesn't turn out as well as I'd hoped, that is evolution in action.
> For that matter, external events will also affect our evolution,
> just as they always have. It's just that their effects will be
> mixed up much more with our choices in responding to them.

Agreed.

> Your advantage to respirocytes, when examined, looks quite weird.
> OK, so now we have this guy with artificial blood which does not
> require oxygen as often as we do, and HE SUFFERS A HEART ATTACK?


It is not _my_ advantage nor my story but rather paraphrased to my best 
recollection from what Ralph Merkle said at

the 2000 Asilomar Alcor conference that I begged borrowed and stole and went 
into debt to attend. If I recall he was

not talking of a time when strong nano could _prevent_ a heart attack but rather
time when the science was just

starting out. It is likely that simple devices not capable of achieving actual 
immortality will hit the market long
before the full blown strong nanotech we dream of does.

> Now wait a minute here! You seem to be proposing that we will
> someday have this marvellous nanotechnology, complete with
> respirocytes, but still suffer from HEART ATTACKS?

As I said the heart attack story was not my own.

> No doubt our
> respirocytes will also protect our brains from strokes, etc etc.


Yes, exactly, but until strong full nanotech is available they will not prevent 
the causes such as blood clots or
burst vessels. Should we not do them as a stop gap?

> Respirocytes would not only have to have
> the ability to protect us, but also cause us even fewer
> problems in keeping them active than our present blood system.

That is why we plan ahead.

> I am sure that this will not answer all your questions, but
> it's my bedtime now and I want some sleep. More later.


Still waiting for the "more later", especially for possible objections to my non
heart attack examples of normal

respirocyte use. Here is another. Recently many people died in a club fire. Much
of these were from smoke inhalation.

Smoke inhalation also kept many from being able to escape that might otherwise 
have been able to and nt died as they

went unconscious before reaching the door. Smoke inhalation is the leading cause
of death in fires often leading to

the death of people when the fire did not consume the entire building nor even 
reach them to burn them. It puts you

out before you can escape. Recently also there were a multitude of deaths at 
another club when people panicked due to

pepper spray use causing them to fear asphyxiation and so stampede for the exit 
trampling people to death. In both

these cases respirocytes could have saved lives. In the fire people could have 
simply held their breath and gotten

out. In the trampling they could also have held their breath but primarily the 
knowledge that they could not
asphyxiate would have quelled their panic.


Ok, Thomas, have I now presented adequate examples of normal uses of 
respirocytes that you said you doubted existed?

James
--
Cryonics Institute of Michigan Member!
The Immortalist Society Member!
The Society for Venturism Member!


MY WEBSITE: http://www.geocities.com/~davidpascal/swayze/ While there follow the
links to photos of me and some of my

artwork and a radio interview on Dr.  J's ChangeSurfer Radio program with me and
the father of cryonics Prof.  Robert
Ettinger, author of "The Prospect of Immortality".
A RELIGION I actually recommend: http://www.venturist.org
A FAVORITE quote: Last lines of the first Star Trek the Next Generation movie.

Capt.  Picard: "What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived, 
after all Number One, we're only mortal."

Will Ryker: "Speak for yourself captain, I intend to live forever!"

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