X-Message-Number: 2127 Date: 19 Apr 93 05:12:30 EDT From: "Steven B. Harris" <> Subject: CRYONICS Ballast Stuff... Dear Brian: It may indeed be that, even counting the heat of fusion, ethanol/water has less heat capacity over the temperature range we're interested in than water ice. The only reason to use ethanol/water over water might be the heat of fusion temperature "knee." But that may be a good enough reason. It all depends on that knee: how sharp is it? I dunno. We'll have to do some experiments to find out. The whole thing can be done well enough for our purposes by taking a cheap styrofoam ice chest with some quart jugs in it full of various ethanol water mixes (or jugs of the pure substances), pouring LN2 into it until full at thermal equilibrium, putting the lid on and just doing a strip chart from a thermocouple reading inside as it all warms to room temp. The "best" curve here, as judged by some combination of total time to warm and slow temp increases in the critical region, will tell us what ballast mix to use in our big project. As for fire marshalls not being able to object to pure ethanol canisters surrounded by ice, by the way, remember that 1) fire marshalls are not rocket scientists, and 2) even savvy fire marshalls sometimes work with statutes about safety standards for given quantities of pure solvents that may leave them no room to maneuver. Nobody writing fire codes has thought of containers of pure ethanol being protected from potential fires by being frozen in blocks of water ice at -130 C, for instance, I guarantee you. It may not matter. Ethanol/water mixes, as they freeze, will be expected to freeze as pure water ice crystals, with ethanol concentrated solutions between. This will continue until the mix between the water ice crystals is the minimum-freezing water/ethanol eutectic mix, which will likely be some simple molar ration of ethanol and water (just as it is for ethylene glycol and water). Given the very high freezing point of ice, I would not expect such a eutectic mix of ethanol and water to freeze at too much below the freezing point of pure ethanol. Who knows, it may freeze at about where 1-propanol does, and save us a lot of trouble. Anyway, the point is that fire marshals and the law cannot be expected to take notice of the defacto micro separation of ethanol and water which occurs when ethanol solutions freeze. So in this case, the fire codes will probably permit us to do what we want. A thought about ballast conformation: Water is HEAVY. I'm not happy about stacking a lot of 80 lb cans of water on top of each other like a pile of bricks without mortar. It sounds difficult and not very safe unless there are no open spaces anywhere in the structure. Even then, with the floor loading we're talking about, this room is going to have to be built like a swimming pool. Very difficult to have relatively delicate foam slabs underneath such a thing! Under such circumstances, one might end up using cans which were deliberately filled much less than full. Well then: an alternative to having to stack carefully might involve smaller ballast shapes which are deliberately poor at filling space or packing efficiently, such as long hollow plastic cylinders with fins (we want lots of space through which to move circulating air). Perhaps the ubiquitous and surprisingly durable polycarbonate 2-liter pop bottles would do. To fill space in a cold room you might simply drop the ballast units in willy nilly to fill all available dead air space. Add some iron to each one, and you can pick them out with a fishing magnet (or an electromagnet-- small load commercial ones, judging from the prices in Edmund Scientific, are not too expensive). For that matter, once you decide that you don't want nearly maximum weight for your space, you can do all kinds of strange things: a first idea that springs to mind is that you could make ballast out of ethanol/water soaked sponges, packaged with a few nails in Tyvek 8" X 11" mailing envelopes. You'd just shovel `em in. You could even superglue steel washers to a million ping pong balls and inject each with a little vodka... I'd better stop while I'm ahead. Steve Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=2127