X-Message-Number: 21546
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 19:44:04 -0800
From: James Swayze <>
Subject: Re: Local support in NW, some further thoughts
References: <>

Richard Gillmann wrote:

> At 11:33 AM 3/31/2003, you wrote:
> >Richard,
> >

> >I should have asked this ebfore last Friday, my surgery date now past. Did 
> >mean to be on call for me? It's moot now but next time I should do better
> >coordination with you. Thanks.
> >
> >James
> I didn't know about your surgery - glad to hear it went well.
> I don't think our local response group can act as a cryonics standby
> team.  I'm thinking that we would be called by Alcor or CI if they needed
> our help with such things as arranging for transportation, getting
> supplies, finding a local mortician and so on.  If we had training and
> equipment, we could do more, so there's that to work towards.
> -Richard


I totally agree. The level of suspension procedure education I hand in mind for 
NW support/response group is maybe near that of what I believe CI gives to
Morticians, we need only, for now, to be knowledgeable enough to help the pros.

Along your line of thought for procuring transportation and such I would like to

suggest we also build a relationship with several near to member locations dry 
sources so that we have a relationship with someone willing to be contacted

possibly at inopportune times for the procurement of dry ice when needed. Also I

feel we should pass the hat for buying some equipment for our response group 
as ice chests for storing ice and dry ice for it to be on hand for a possible
standby situation, of course every cryonicist should have extra ice chests
available at home as well as plenty of plastic sheeting. I don't mean for us to

constantly have ice available, that would be ridiculously expensive. It would be

obtained at the time of need in the event there was enough time to be notified 

need. For any sudden acquisition of ice we might consider putting together an 

fund to reimburse medical professionals or family members of cryonicists or even
strangers complying with cryonics medic alert bracelet instructions, those who

would be called upon suddenly to procure large amounts of ice, in the absence of
any being on hand.

I also think it might behoove cryonicists to also carry a small blank, as to 

only, cashiers check only large enough for the ice procurement reimbursement and
maybe even a small supplement reward for complying with cryonics medic alert

bracelet instructions [reward should be stated on wallet card and AD document 
of course estate documentation] such as for continuing CPR, ice bathing and

contacting Cryonics providers and patient's family. It should be well marked as 
its intended purpose [ALERT: Bank teller call this number before cashing this

check] and be listed in estate documents as to the fact it is supposed to have 

always on ones person and what likely folks would have expressed permission to 

it--in other words known or proved to have helped out with compliance of cryonic
initial procedures. A cashier's check would avoid probate issues and delays.

Perhaps, though for better control over the funds, not a check but a voucher 

could be turned in with proof obtained or presented of compliance with 

actions that it pays for. Again a cashiers check should back up such a voucher 
be in the hands of one's Healthcare Representative (as per Advanced Directive

documents) or in possession of one's Cryonics Provider, both with instructions 
to how to handle paying it out. My thinking here as always is to remove every

possible impediment to persuading someone to help a cryonics patient when the 

arises. As soon as I can fund such a check I will be putting it in the proper 

and adjusting my estate and Advanced Directive documents to reflect it... unless
am advised otherwise.

Back to ice procurement, if we were all more centrally located here in the NW 
perhaps the purchase of a freezer for keeping large amounts of ice readily
available would be a wise investment, my family is considering such an
investemnt--if they do I will pledge such ice it will contain as available for

emergency use for any NW area cryonicist we can reasonably and in timely fashion

get it to. However, since we are not centrally located or near to each other 

in the NW it would make little sense to try to transport large amounts of ice 

more than 30 miles to a patients location... unless only to supplement 
locally procured ice in amounts enough to begin cooling and buy time. It might,

however, due to lower cost be doable to have some ice chests at several 

so that they could be called upon when needed. Also I believe there exist 

or collapsible ice chests that could be easily stored and even kept in the 
of response/support team volunteer automobiles. Of course the non collapsible
electrically powered kind could keep the ice fresher longer.

I'm also considering the mess melting ice makes--not to mention excreta

incontinence, hence the plastic sheeting mentioned above, and also considering 
reticence to such a messy prospect some members of a cryonics patient's family,

perhaps not so into the idea, may have when considering possible damage to their
floors or even simply extra laundry, for allowing unimpeded cryonics suspension

and/or standby procedures to take place. Along this line I was considering 

for an ice bath that the need for was, I believe, discussed regarding the recent

Canadian endeavor. What immediately comes to mind is a very small inflatable 
Perhaps this has already been suggested, I don't recall. I don't wish to ape
someone else's idea as my own. If it has been then consider this simply

reiteration. If the boat seems a good idea then I'm sure Christine Gaspar can 

me up on the following. Patients can be easily placed in the right position _in_

the boat by; while still deflated rolling half of it lengthwise to the patient 
a roll and with patient rolled on their side pushing this rolled half under the

patient. Then roll patient back completely the other way then unroll the rolled 

half and viola you have the patient in the center of the boat... now inflate. 
inflated walls of the boat should well be cable of withstanding the force of a

large amount of iced slurry. A boat only large enough to submerge just the upper

body may be enough. The experts can debate this. This would keep the boat, 
small life raft size, to a manageable size.

Speaking of possible messes made by either organization's style of procedure, I
have another idea... I'm just full of them, or full of _it_ maybe. :) As before
this is to try to help ameliorate, as best is possible, any possible objection
anyone may have where such persons have the authority to approve or impede

suspension procedures and may not always be totally in our camp. So, as to 
caused by suspension and standby procedures, could we consider starting a

'post-procedure cleanup fund' or have a group of volunteers pledged and ready. I

would think for both public relations purposes, imagine what it says to have 

details so finely under control and feelings of those involved fully considered,
and to smooth sensibilities the fund rather than volunteers is probably best
because the fund could be used to provide professional cleaning services. Some

people would likely prefer a professional cleaning service not wanting any 
intrusion into their lives and homes by persons not well known to them and not
bonded and insured against loss or damage to their furnishings and possessions.

What say you all? I have CC'd this to many pertinent cryonics individuals and to

CryonicsNW and Cryonet lists as I believe the above suggestions should be 

widely and the organizations involved kept apprised of what we may be 

Cryonics Institute of Michigan Member!
The Immortalist Society Member!
The Society for Venturism Member!

MY WEBSITE: http://www.geocities.com/~davidpascal/swayze/

Signature Memetic Virus--The worst enemy of those who now or will need medical 

is the politician and proselytizing religious bigot who proscribes what doctors 

allowed to prescribe and research, with the consent of their patients. Those who

understand this are strongly encouraged to modify this to fit their personality,

and add this to their signature file, and organize to recover our freedom from 
Brother. For those who wait until they are sick, it will be too late. Those who
suffer from diseases which might have been cured by fetal tissue research or

schedule 1 drugs banned by Big Brother, have the right to hold accountable those
who sat on their hands or worse, deferred their responsibility for personal and

humanity's survival to useless gods and pontificating religious quacks, while 
remained ill and dying.

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