X-Message-Number: 21620 Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 05:50:05 -0700 From: James Swayze <> Subject: About digits in nature References: <> > Message #21618 > From: > Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 10:32:47 EDT > Subject: symbolism > > > Thomas Donaldson has said that brains are unlike computers, in that computers > only manipulate symbols. Mike Perry has said that, according to prevailing > views of quantum theory, everything at the basic level operates digitally and > therefore symbolically. While recognizing the difficulty of doing justice to > any arguments--Thomas', Mike's, or mine--in extreme brevity, I'll make > another attempt to clarify. > > <snip> > > As to Mike: > > The putative digital character of elementary processes is irrelevant, I > think. For example, even if mass and charge are quantized, they are still two > different things. Space is still different from time, etc. I have read a brief treatise on the idea that everything in the universe is ultimately represented by a binary logic and by this notion one must consider the pre existence of a grand computer to read such digital data. I liken this to the related notion that mathematics ultimately can describe all that exists and even that such things as the Fibinaci sequence, often found in nature, and other such observances point to there being a grand mathematician that must have designed the universe to fit mathematical constructs since these mathematical relationships do exist. I reject both these notions. I feel that both the alleged digital descriptive property of the universe and the mathematical descriptive property of all that exists in the universe are mere consequence of the universe existing. I don't see any need for there being a designer or grand computer simply on the basis that such relationships can be described by human descriptive sciences. Which came first the knowledge of the science or the underpinning laws of said science? We call them laws because of our language limitation not because there is a lawgiver. It is surely a very interesting curiosity to consider how mathematics describes everything but that is merely a consequence of exisitence not the other way round. The universe just is, until we prove otherwise, if that is even possible. I give an example. There is a video available somewhere on the net of a baseball game pitch that just happens to intersect with the path of a bird's flight to very tragic consequence for the bird. Now we can take said video and map out all the tragectories of the bird and the ball and whatever else we choose using our math science and point to all sorts of interesting coincidences. Does this mean the grand mathmatician designed this consequence? I don't think so. How unfortunate for the bird! Just because we can use a human invention to describe a situation does not mean at all that said situation is by pre ordained design. It is no mystery to me that ultimately every data bit comes down to a binary code. After all there are only two possible exclusive opposing attributes to any given issue or true/false statement. There is 'yes' or there is 'no', 'maybe' does not count if we are being exclusive. Just my opinion. James -- Cryonics Institute of Michigan Member! The Immortalist Society Member! The Society for Venturism Member! MY WEBSITE: http://www.geocities.com/~davidpascal/swayze/ Signature Memetic Virus--The worst enemy of those who now or will need medical care is the politician and proselytizing religious bigot who proscribes what doctors are allowed to prescribe and research, with the consent of their patients. Those who understand this are strongly encouraged to modify this to fit their personality, and add this to their signature file, and organize to recover our freedom from Big Brother. For those who wait until they are sick, it will be too late. Those who suffer from diseases which might have been cured by fetal tissue research or schedule 1 drugs banned by Big Brother, have the right to hold accountable those who sat on their hands or worse, deferred their responsibility for personal and humanity's survival to useless gods and pontificating religious quacks, while they remained ill and dying. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=21620