X-Message-Number: 21620
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 05:50:05 -0700
From: James Swayze <>
Subject: About digits in nature
References: <>

> Message #21618
> From: 
> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 10:32:47 EDT
> Subject: symbolism
> Thomas Donaldson has said that brains are unlike computers, in that computers
> only manipulate symbols. Mike Perry has said that, according to prevailing
> views of quantum theory, everything at the basic level operates digitally and
> therefore symbolically. While recognizing the difficulty of doing justice to
> any arguments--Thomas', Mike's, or mine--in extreme brevity, I'll make
> another attempt to clarify.
> <snip>
> As to Mike:
> The putative digital character of elementary processes is irrelevant, I
> think. For example, even if mass and charge are quantized, they are still two
> different things. Space is still different from time, etc.

I have read a brief treatise on the idea that everything in the universe is

ultimately represented by a binary logic and by this notion one must consider 

pre existence of a grand computer to read such digital data. I liken this to the

related notion that mathematics ultimately can describe all that exists and even

that such things as the Fibinaci sequence, often found in nature, and other such
observances point to there being a grand mathematician that must have designed
the universe to fit mathematical constructs since these mathematical

relationships do exist. I reject both these notions. I feel that both the 
digital descriptive property of the universe and the mathematical descriptive

property of all that exists in the universe are mere consequence of the universe

I don't see any need for there being a designer or grand computer simply on the
basis that such relationships can be described by human descriptive sciences.
Which came first the knowledge of the science or the underpinning laws of said
science? We call them laws because of our language limitation not because there
is a lawgiver. It is surely a very interesting curiosity to consider how
mathematics describes everything but that is merely a consequence of exisitence

not the other way round. The universe just is, until we prove otherwise, if that
is even possible.

I give an example. There is a video available somewhere on the net of a baseball
game pitch that just happens to intersect with the path of a bird's flight to

very tragic consequence for the bird. Now we can take said video and map out all
the tragectories of the bird and the ball and whatever else we choose using our
math science and point to all sorts of interesting coincidences. Does this mean
the grand mathmatician designed this consequence? I don't think so. How

unfortunate for the bird! Just because we can use a human invention to describe 

situation does not mean at all that said situation is by pre ordained design. It
is no mystery to me that ultimately every data bit comes down to a binary code.

After all there are only two possible exclusive opposing attributes to any given

issue or true/false statement. There is 'yes' or there is 'no', 'maybe' does not
count if we are being exclusive. Just my opinion.

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