X-Message-Number: 21624
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 09:03:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Scott Badger <>
Subject: Re: Musings on the Singularity

Hi everyone. It's been a while. Just wanted to quickly
express my shock and sadness at Dr. Lemler's recent
illness. All of us hope fervently that Jerry recovers
as many have before him. You have much to do yet
Jerry, so stay with us a bit longer, OK?

We're back to the Fermi think, so I couldn't resist
chiming in.

Mike Perry wrote:

 >I don't see this "end product" as "inescapable"
because I think
 >"replication" is being over-emphasized. Replication
means creating others
 >like yourself. Advanced beings, I submit, will not
do this. They may create
 >new sentient beings, and those beings will no doubt
bear certain
 >similarities to their creators, but a close
resemblance, such as exists
 >presently between biological life forms and their 
offspring, does not
 >necessarily follow.

BTW, Hi Mike. Anyway, seems to me that if I was a post
singularity SI, There's be little reason to replicate.
It would be wiser to maybe more or me ... to create
redudant systems to join with my own to better insure
my survival and expand my overall self out into the

It's possible that I would create a group of agent
mechanisms that would be intelligent emnough to carry
out certain tasks I need completed and these agents
may even be self aware... maybe even form social
systems within their group... would they think of me a

I have to say though that I favor the theory I call
the "Fermi Box". Where are they? They're in the box. 

If other intelligent life forms have developed (and I
think that's a big if) and achieved singularity
status, I suspect they are vastly more interested in
exploring the infinite inner worlds of their own minds
and the minds of others like them. Try to speculate
for a moment on all the amazing worlds that could be
created virtually with such super powerful
imaginations. Do you really think that the real world
would be more interesting? Crossing all that boring
space just to get to another typical star system?
Yawn. But exploring the landscapes, seascapes, and
mindscapes of brother SI's. Now that sounds like an
interesting journey. Did you know that there is
already more square footage of land in virtual spaces
now occupied by vidoe gamers than there is on the
actual planet Earth. That's a bit suggestive, don't
you think?

Yes, there would be millions if not billions of
different simulations running in Fermi boxes whereever
the singularity happened in the galaxy... 

which is precisely why the odds seem quite high that
the world we are currently living in is one of those
simulations. Think of it. If there were billions of
"simulated" planets (maybe even simulations within
simulations) and say there were only several thousands
of "real" planets like ours with intelligent life.
Assuming you can't tell whether you're in a simulation
or not, you are forced to come to the conclusion that
the odds are that you are not on one of the real

You can read much more at:


Scott Badger, Ph.D.
Member: ALCOR, Extropy Insitute, Life Extension Foundation
Instructor/Researcher-University of Idaho
Four new songs from my album "Burdens" now available at:
(www.mp3.com/scottbadger) in addition to:
my Transhumanist CD. "Phenom"

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