X-Message-Number: 2177 Date: Thu, 29 Apr 93 14:39:33 CDT From: Brian Wowk <> Subject: CRYONICS Patient Placement Perry Metzger: > I admit to being less than knowledgeable on this subject, so I'd like > to hear what Brian has to say to directly address this question, that > is, which is better for the patients (we know that vertical storage is > better from the logistical point of view -- but then again, to be > crude, so is burial). Perhaps an experiment or two would be in order? > Perhaps Mike Darwin could comment on apparent vertical storage > stresses, if any, in the patients he neuroconverted and then > autopsied? I'd be especially interested to know how their spinal > columns and other long structures held up after prolonged vertical > storage. LN2-stored patients are not relevant because, as Clarissa Wells points out, they are supported by buoyant force. In other words, they float almost weightless like a swimmer underwater. Air-stored patients will not be supported by their spine, or any skeletal structures. They will be supported by their soft tissue, which at -130'C will be solid ice. What is the strength and stability of ice at -130'C ? Well, in the outer solar system there are moons that have ice mountains millions of years old. Indeed, at -130'C ice qualifies as ROCK. You have to also remember that although we may soon be able to preserve brains well, we are a long way from being able to freeze whole bodies without massive damage. Orthopedic disorders resulting from your frozen spine holding you up for 200 years will be pretty insignificant by comparison. This sermon on ice strength actually makes me wonder about the feasibility of storing patients horizontally *without* cassettes. (Stacking them "like cordwood", as Mike Darwin used to say). Pouring polystyrene "popcorn" over and around patients might distribute the weight of overlying patients enough to make it hyrostatic (uniform on all sides). This is not as absurd as it sounds. You can stand on a raw egg without it breaking if you enclose it in soft foam within a confined space. Space efficiency would be super high, with gravity as the ultimate stabilizer and optimizer. --- Brian Wowk Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=2177