X-Message-Number: 21816 From: "Kitty Antonik Wakfer" <> Subject: RE: CryoNet #21801 Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 16:17:48 -0400 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message #21801 Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 04:57:19 -0700 From: James Swayze <> Subject: Brainless comment about welfare References: <> > Message #21792 > From: "aschwin de wolf" <> > References: <> > Subject: Re: Defense Spending > Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 10:28:43 -0400 > <clip> > Defense spending as a percentage of GDP is not that high. If cuts need to be > made it should be in other areas (like welfare). Excuse me!? Who the hell are you to say such a brainless and callous thing? Have you ever needed welfare? I highly doubt it! If you had you might think twice about mouthing off like you just did. Don't ever get seriously injured and happen not to be a millionaire or have iron clad irrevocable health insurance because, my ignorant friend, you'll get to learn what it is like to be held in contempt by idiots like yourself that haven't got a goddamn clue what true suffering and poverty are all about. <snip long justification> So don't come to me with brainless comments about cutting welfare, you won't get a sympathetic ill informed ear. I am too damned well informed thank you very much! It is you that is sadly ill informed. Perhaps you should look into ways to put to work an ignored asset. Talk about an economic stimulus package! James ************************* I had originally planned to send the message below to James only, after first writing it immediately after reading his. But after letting it sit a day and on further consideration I have decided that the concerns I voiced, especially in the last paragraph - and Paul's and my current major effort - deserved to be read by others who are seeking much extended healthy lives, with or without the use of cryonics. -------- James, Your long tirade in defense of collecting monies stolen from others, whether one, a dozen, or a 100 million, is philosophically immoral. And yes, tax money is expropriated - stolen, no matter how you try to justify that you should get it. Very true that the system is distorted; *everything* in which governments are involved is just that. But defending the practice by which many are robbed to support others who are "unfortunate" or not ("welfare" is of all kinds), is not the way to change a system that inevitably creates mass lack of individual responsibility and ensuing distrust, envy and even hatred. Your dismissal of receiving "charity" because you are an atheist is groundless, since any person, group or organization can donate time, money or services (even in this warped society that exists, until enough people are motivated to change it) without ties to a religious belief. But then the recipients would have to acknowledge that they were being "given charity" and did not have a right to the giver's donation. (It might be preferable to arrange a contract of sorts for payback by a method determined by the individual case with some creative thinking.) But such a discussion does not belong on CryoNet and I will not criticize you there. If you wish to justify government theft and its use for *any* purpose, including your personal support, do so in a forum where philosophy is the main topic of discussion. If you seriously wish to not be a "burden" then you need to reorient your current thinking which views everyone else as owing you. If you were not responsible in anyway for your broken neck, then someone else was through their violation of you or simply negligence - accidents don't just happen. ("Misfortune" is a word people use often to describe their own lack of responsibility, but I don't recall the details of your accident, though "vehicle accident" comes to mind.) If you wish to discuss this further and in public, you can post to MoreLife Yahoo http://groups.yahoo.com/group/morelife/ since achieving a good mental outlook (Outlook section) and understanding and improving human relations (Interpersonal section) are integral parts of the MoreLife website. You are an articulate and talented young man evidenced by your writing, speaking, and design output; it is unfortunate that you appear to view yourself as an "asset" that others should "put to work". Unless and until you take responsibility for who you are now (and possibly for how you got to this point, depending on the circumstances of your "accident"), and find ways to support yourself without resorting to monies/services resulting from tax (stolen) money, then you will rightfully be viewed by many others as a recipient of stolen goods. You are not alone as a recipient of stolen goods; governments through the years have made the vast majority of citizens such recipients to some degree and created the pathetic and even frightening situations seen virtually everywhere. (All the easier to govern/rule those who are "on the dole".) These are the current social structures that if not radically altered, will not allow the establishment and availability of life extending methods before Paul's and my death. Therefore we are spending more time searching for a way to more quickly attain a major portion of the long-term goal of MoreLife, described on the Introduction page, of greatly increasing our freedom to do as we please with our own lives so long as we do not initiate physical force, threaten physical force or use fraud against others. Specifically, we think that nothing short of a revolutionary change in the social structure of the technologically advanced world is necessary and we think that we have found a way in which this might peaceably be brought about. For current details see the Critiques of Foundational Documents and Influential Writings on Rights and Government at http://selfsip.org , a first step towards the Self-Sovereign Individual Project [in progress]. You are welcome to post your specific comments/criticisms/questions (please doing so "inline") of the available works at MoreLife Yahoo, as stated in the page footers. **Kitty Antonik Wakfer *** MoreLife for the rational - http://morelife.org Reality based tools for more life in quantity and quality Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=21816