X-Message-Number: 21816
From: "Kitty Antonik Wakfer" <>
Subject: RE: CryoNet #21801 
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 16:17:48 -0400


Message #21801
Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 04:57:19 -0700
From: James Swayze <>
Subject: Brainless comment about welfare
References: <>

> Message #21792
> From: "aschwin de wolf" <>
> References: <>
> Subject: Re: Defense Spending
> Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 10:28:43 -0400

> Defense spending as a percentage of GDP is not that high. If cuts need to
> made it should be in other areas (like welfare).

Excuse me!? Who the hell are you to say such a brainless and callous thing?
Have you ever needed
welfare? I highly doubt it! If you had you might think twice about mouthing
off like you just
did. Don't ever get seriously injured and happen not to be a millionaire or
have iron clad
irrevocable health insurance because, my ignorant friend, you'll get to
learn what it is like to
be held in contempt by idiots like yourself that haven't got a goddamn clue
what true suffering
and poverty are all about.

<snip long justification>

So don't come to me with brainless comments about cutting welfare, you won't
get a sympathetic
ill informed ear. I am too damned well informed thank you very much! It is
you that is sadly ill
informed. Perhaps you should look into ways to put to work an ignored asset.
Talk about an
economic stimulus package!


I had originally planned to send the message below to James only, after
first writing it immediately after reading his. But after letting it sit a
day and on further consideration I have decided that the concerns I voiced,
especially in the last paragraph - and Paul's and my current major effort -
deserved to be read by others who are seeking much extended healthy lives,
with or without the use of cryonics.

Your long tirade in defense of collecting monies stolen from others, whether
one, a dozen, or a 100 million, is philosophically immoral. And yes, tax
money is expropriated - stolen, no matter how you try to justify that you
should get it. Very true that the system is distorted; *everything* in which
governments are involved is just that. But defending the practice by which
many are robbed to support others who are "unfortunate" or not ("welfare" is
of all kinds), is not the way to change a system that inevitably creates
mass lack of individual responsibility and ensuing distrust, envy and even
hatred. Your dismissal of receiving "charity" because you are an atheist is
groundless, since any person, group or organization can donate time, money
or services (even in this warped society that exists, until enough people
are motivated to change it) without ties to a religious belief. But then the
recipients would have to acknowledge that they were being "given charity"
and did not have a right to the giver's donation. (It might be preferable to
arrange a contract of sorts for payback by a method determined by the
individual case with some creative thinking.)

 But such a discussion does not belong on CryoNet and I will not criticize
you there. If you wish to justify government theft and its use for *any*
purpose, including your personal support, do so in a forum where philosophy
is the main topic of discussion.  If you seriously wish to not be a "burden"
then you need to reorient your current thinking which views everyone else as
owing you.  If you were not responsible in anyway for your broken neck, then
someone else was through their violation of you or simply negligence -
accidents don't just happen. ("Misfortune" is a word people use often to
describe their own lack of responsibility, but I don't recall the details of
your accident, though "vehicle accident" comes to mind.) If you wish to
discuss this further and in public, you can post to MoreLife Yahoo
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/morelife/  since achieving a good mental
outlook (Outlook section) and understanding and improving human relations
(Interpersonal section) are integral parts of the MoreLife website.

You are an articulate and talented young man evidenced by your writing,
speaking, and design output; it is unfortunate that you appear to view
yourself as an "asset" that others should "put to work".  Unless and until
you take responsibility for who you are now (and possibly for how you got to
this point, depending on the circumstances of your "accident"), and find
ways to support yourself without resorting to monies/services resulting from
tax (stolen) money, then you will rightfully be viewed by many others as a
recipient of stolen goods.

You are not alone as a recipient of stolen goods; governments through the
years have made the vast majority of citizens such recipients to some degree
and created the pathetic and even frightening situations seen virtually
everywhere. (All the easier to govern/rule those who are "on the dole".)
These are the current social structures that if not radically altered, will
not allow the establishment and availability of life extending methods
before Paul's and my death.  Therefore we are spending more time searching
for a way to more quickly attain a major portion of the long-term goal of
MoreLife, described on the Introduction page, of greatly increasing our
freedom to do as we please with our own lives so long as we do not initiate
physical force, threaten physical force or use fraud against others.
Specifically, we think that nothing short of a revolutionary change in the
social structure of the technologically advanced world is necessary and we
think that we have found a way in which this might peaceably be brought
about. For current details see the Critiques of Foundational Documents and
Influential Writings on Rights and Government at http://selfsip.org , a
first step towards the Self-Sovereign Individual Project [in progress]. You
are welcome to post your specific comments/criticisms/questions (please
doing so "inline") of the available works at MoreLife Yahoo, as stated in
the page footers.

**Kitty Antonik Wakfer
MoreLife for the rational - http://morelife.org
Reality based tools for more life in quantity and quality

Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=21816