X-Message-Number: 21824
From: "Sue Hopkins" <>
Subject: Re: Message #21816
Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 00:43:47 +0100

I have only rarely posted to CryoNet, but felt compelled on this occasion as
I am appalled by Kitty Antonik Wakfer's opinion on welfare and disagree with
it's supposed impact on cryonics.

Message #21816
From: "Kitty Antonik Wakfer" <>
Subject: RE: CryoNet #21801
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 16:17:48 -0400

And yes, tax
money is expropriated - stolen, no matter how you try to justify that you
should get it.

Tax is not stolen, in no way can you define it's acquisition as illegal. You
may disagree with it, which is your prerogative, but it is ridiculous to say
that it is stolen from you. If you are of this opinion, perhaps you should
report it to your local police station and see their reaction.

If you seriously wish to not be a "burden"
then you need to reorient your current thinking which views everyone else as
owing you.  If you were not responsible in anyway for your broken neck, then
someone else was through their violation of you or simply negligence -
accidents don't just happen. ("Misfortune" is a word people use often to
describe their own lack of responsibility, but I don't recall the details of
your accident, though "vehicle accident" comes to mind.)

You do not need to believe that others "owe" you to believe that you are a
valid recipient of financial assistance. You appear to think that there is
no such thing as society, that you are entirely disconnected from others,
and in no way should contribute. If your argument was played out to it's
logical conclusion, then what kind of ideal society would you envisage ? How
would your ideal society work ? Do the elderly after a lifetime of work be
thrown on to the scrap heap because their pension would be a financial drain
on you ? What should be done with the mentally ill ? I suppose you don't
have children so perhaps we could save money and do away with a free
education system for all. Maybe you have private health care, in that case
access to health care could be restricted to those who can pay for it (which
would be useful, of course, because then the poor without recourse to
medicine would die off faster and be less of a drain on you financially).
Also, perhaps children in care could usefully be sent to work to pay for a
roof over their heads ?

A society that views others primarily in terms of how much they earn or how
much welfare they require is ultimately very inhuman and not in my mind a
very advanced one. In terms of cryonics, when we are frozen in our dewars we
are in the most vulnerable and helpless of positions, let's hope that a
future society does not view us as a potential financial drain on their
resources, we will be far less able physically and mentally than those
future generations, who will be enhanced genetically and in ways we can not
possibly foresee, they will be far more intelligent, creative, physically
attractive and fit than us, we will have frozen along with us all kinds of
pollutants, viruses and bacteria that will have probably been eradicated
long before we are reanimated, I for one hope that they will not view us in
terms of our potential financial cost and in more human terms, otherwise we
will be left to rot as it would seem that you would have James Swayze do

Sue Hopkins

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