X-Message-Number: 21902
From: "John de Rivaz" <>
Subject: voluntary socialist systems and creeping fascism
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 10:55:57 +0100

Mike Perry mentioned "voluntary socialist systems" in message 29001

The problems with this sort of thing can be exemplified by the person that
gives all his assets to a group and then falls out with the group and leaves
it without his money (which he has voluntarily given away.) If the group
know that he has lots of money, they may be nice to him until he has given
it to them, and then once he has given it up cold shoulder him, especially
if he has no personal abilities to offer the group.  He may call upon the
group to give all or some of it back, but this is unlikely to happen in many
instances. Victims of this sort of thing are often people who have inherited
money but have no real abilities themselves, and the group can consider them
parasites and fair game. Such groups are often denigrated by the rest of
society as "cults" and financial activities of the type described attract
disapproval although there is noting illegal about them.

As to Steve Jackson's comments about "Godwin's Law" in 21898, obviously I
stand corrected about the written and original definition, but nevertheless
the common usage of the phrase can still allow fascist methods to flourish
unopposed. Many words or phrases change their meaning through "incorrect"
common usage.

As cryonicists we regard someone who is newly declared dead as being
potentially recoverable by our technology. Therefore someone performing an
action that renders the "deceased" beyond recovery by our technology is
killing him because he is very sick. This action could be performed using
the (potentially violent) force of law. The killing of people who are sick
and a burden on society by force of law is a common feature of fascist
dictatorships and fascist ideology. Philosophies that lead in this direction
are leading to fascism, but it doesn't necessarily imply that their
proponents are Nazis -- merely they have not thought their philosophies

Sincerely, John de Rivaz:  http://John.deRivaz.com for websites including
Cryonics Europe, Longevity Report, The Venturists, Porthtowan, Alec Harley
Reeves - inventor, Arthur Bowker - potter, de Rivaz genealogy,  Nomad .. and

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