X-Message-Number: 21902 From: "John de Rivaz" <> Subject: voluntary socialist systems and creeping fascism Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 10:55:57 +0100 Mike Perry mentioned "voluntary socialist systems" in message 29001 The problems with this sort of thing can be exemplified by the person that gives all his assets to a group and then falls out with the group and leaves it without his money (which he has voluntarily given away.) If the group know that he has lots of money, they may be nice to him until he has given it to them, and then once he has given it up cold shoulder him, especially if he has no personal abilities to offer the group. He may call upon the group to give all or some of it back, but this is unlikely to happen in many instances. Victims of this sort of thing are often people who have inherited money but have no real abilities themselves, and the group can consider them parasites and fair game. Such groups are often denigrated by the rest of society as "cults" and financial activities of the type described attract disapproval although there is noting illegal about them. As to Steve Jackson's comments about "Godwin's Law" in 21898, obviously I stand corrected about the written and original definition, but nevertheless the common usage of the phrase can still allow fascist methods to flourish unopposed. Many words or phrases change their meaning through "incorrect" common usage. As cryonicists we regard someone who is newly declared dead as being potentially recoverable by our technology. Therefore someone performing an action that renders the "deceased" beyond recovery by our technology is killing him because he is very sick. This action could be performed using the (potentially violent) force of law. The killing of people who are sick and a burden on society by force of law is a common feature of fascist dictatorships and fascist ideology. Philosophies that lead in this direction are leading to fascism, but it doesn't necessarily imply that their proponents are Nazis -- merely they have not thought their philosophies through. -- Sincerely, John de Rivaz: http://John.deRivaz.com for websites including Cryonics Europe, Longevity Report, The Venturists, Porthtowan, Alec Harley Reeves - inventor, Arthur Bowker - potter, de Rivaz genealogy, Nomad .. and more Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=21902