X-Message-Number: 21905
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 10:11:43 -0400
From: Thomas Donaldson <>
Subject: CryoNet #21894 - #21900

Hi everyone!

I guess I too can be tempted. I will try to keep my comments short
because I do not think the subject deserves lengthy comments, and
not the degree of attention it has received so far on Cryonet.

Let's look at this libertarian-socialist dispute a bit differently.
First of all, we're all subject to natural selection, and this
won't change regardless of the materials of which we are made
or our abilities to change our genetic background. It'll just 
become more complex and harder to predict.

Putting the matter briefly, groups aren't subject to selection.
Individuals are. What often happens is that some individuals
decide that somehow they represent a group, and work towards
their own interests under the guise of that representation. 
The group may be democratic and restrict those who can so
represent themselves or it may not be. Naturally it is to the
interest of any representative of a group to evade those
restrictions for his/her own purposes. So don't be fooled here"
just what organization of society serves best YOUR interests?

And just to confuse you, selection theory doesn't claim that
all forms of altruism are impossible. In fact, there are several
kinds which can take an important role: treatment of their
children by parents, treatment of relatives, and one kind
that requires some advanced intelligence: I do an altruistic
act to your benefit because I have reason to believe that
you will respond, someday, with an equally altruistic act
to MY benefit.

So libertarian socialism or soclibertarianism or whatever:
in individual cases, which treatment will really be best for
YOU, and why? Sure, you may think that money should be taken
from the "rich" (most Americans are "rich" as seen by the 
rest of the world) and given to the "poor" (are you poor?).
And don't prattle to me about morality: natural selection
does not pay attention to morality, and if you want to set
up a "moral" group of people, unless its traits are actually
those supported by natural selection it won't work. Not
only that, but it will probably break down in some colorful
way, like the Soviet Union broke down when the myth that
its officials always acted for "the people's good" became
quite visibly a pretense.

Sorry to have taken so long on this.

          Best wishes and long long life for all,

             Thomas Donaldson

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