X-Message-Number: 21905 Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 10:11:43 -0400 From: Thomas Donaldson <> Subject: CryoNet #21894 - #21900 Hi everyone! I guess I too can be tempted. I will try to keep my comments short because I do not think the subject deserves lengthy comments, and not the degree of attention it has received so far on Cryonet. Let's look at this libertarian-socialist dispute a bit differently. First of all, we're all subject to natural selection, and this won't change regardless of the materials of which we are made or our abilities to change our genetic background. It'll just become more complex and harder to predict. Putting the matter briefly, groups aren't subject to selection. Individuals are. What often happens is that some individuals decide that somehow they represent a group, and work towards their own interests under the guise of that representation. The group may be democratic and restrict those who can so represent themselves or it may not be. Naturally it is to the interest of any representative of a group to evade those restrictions for his/her own purposes. So don't be fooled here" just what organization of society serves best YOUR interests? And just to confuse you, selection theory doesn't claim that all forms of altruism are impossible. In fact, there are several kinds which can take an important role: treatment of their children by parents, treatment of relatives, and one kind that requires some advanced intelligence: I do an altruistic act to your benefit because I have reason to believe that you will respond, someday, with an equally altruistic act to MY benefit. So libertarian socialism or soclibertarianism or whatever: in individual cases, which treatment will really be best for YOU, and why? Sure, you may think that money should be taken from the "rich" (most Americans are "rich" as seen by the rest of the world) and given to the "poor" (are you poor?). And don't prattle to me about morality: natural selection does not pay attention to morality, and if you want to set up a "moral" group of people, unless its traits are actually those supported by natural selection it won't work. Not only that, but it will probably break down in some colorful way, like the Soviet Union broke down when the myth that its officials always acted for "the people's good" became quite visibly a pretense. Sorry to have taken so long on this. Best wishes and long long life for all, Thomas Donaldson Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=21905