X-Message-Number: 2195 Date: 02 May 93 00:36:58 EDT From: Mike Darwin <> Subject: LOX Accumulation From: Mike Darwin To: Bob Ettinger, All Re: LOX accumulation Date: 1 May, 1993 I would appreciate it if Kevin would be kind enough to relay these comments to Bob Ettinger ASAP. With my well deserved reputation for thinking the worst and then believing it, I wish to take credit for being the first (to my knowledge) to think of the LOX accumulation problem. I first raised this issue with Jerry Leaf and Hugh Hixon over a decade ago. As it turns out, it may be more of a problem than we all bargained for. The problem isn't just with the trace impurities of LOX in the LN2 but rather is compounded by air being injected into the LN2 via fill tubing and lines, and air mixing in with vapor when neck tube plugs are removed. For this reason Alcor went to nitrogen gas purges of LN2 lines before filling some time ago, and began capping the open-mouthed neuro dewars with a cover apparatus during filling (do you at Alcor still do this?). About a decade ago Hugh Hixon and I decided to find out exactly how bad the problem was. We used an LR-40 patient dewar which had been in service for two years. A liquid sample was taken and allowed to return to gas in a large capacity, heavy duty, toy baloon. The O2 content was then evaluated with Cryovita's Radiometer blood gas equipment. The concentration was in the vicinity of 2% as I recall. Hugh Hixon has the notebooks and so could probably give exact details of the experiment. Also, I think it was written up in CRYONICS at the time. The control experiment using fresh LN2 from the supplier showed virtually no dissolved 02. We did not look for stratification of LOX in the LN2 and I doubt whether this would happen since: 1) stratification will be slow, 2) the liquid gets stirred up during refils, and 3) things are pretty fizzy in there between fills (little known fact: it is NOT quiet inside dewars, they sound like an opened can of soda, very soft fizzing sound....). Now as to the significance of all this. The short answer is: I don't know. The longer answer is that fire hazards are the LEAST of our worries. Oxygen is ACTIVE even at those temperatures. Indeed, high carbon steel cannot be used to store LOX since it will be degraded over time and is a potential combustion hazard. This is why LOX dewars are made of stainless steel. Biological material is not stored in LOX because LOX damages it. Years ago there were a couple of researchers named Salisbury and Graves who claimed that metabolism was going in their LN2 stored samples. Most certainly metabolism was not going on, but, once I learned how they operated, it became clear that LOX contamination might have been a factor. Bob's feelings of reassurance about other operations not encountering this problem may be misplaced for the following reasons: 1) Very few operations store cells or tissues for prolonged periods of time (i.e., decades or longer). 2) Even fewer operations store samples in liquid. Indeed, almost all semen, tissue culture, embryo, and other cell banking operations I'm aware of use vapor. They actively avoid immersion storage in LN2 because it leaks into vials and causes them to explode. In fact, at Alcor I abandoned LN2 storage of archival lab and tissue samples for just this reason. There is now an entire MVE A-8000 dewar full of samples being stored in VAPOR. 3) Some investigators (a few) have reported deterioration in samples stored in LN2 for a long period of time. This has always disturbed me and I have long wondered if LOX could be the culprit. 4) Virtually all labs that store cell and tissue samples protect them from contact with LN2 and thus slow down the entry of any LOX into the sample. Until recently, glass was THE most commonly used vessel material. Glass is pretty good at excluding 02. Even today, to the best of my knowledge, virtually all sperm and embryos are still stored in glass straws. Perhaps Steve Bridge could check with his father on this matter since his father has long been involved in semen/embryo freezing. 5) Suspension patients are in direct contact with the liquid. If stratification occurs the PATIENT'S HEAD will be exposed to the HIGHEST LOX concentration. Further, in patients with cracks or burr holes and gas space due to shrinkage of the brain from glycerolization, liquid (and LOX) may be seeping into the tissue and into the brain along fracture planes. Certainly neuro patients who experience CNS dehydration have a well of LN2 and/or LOX surrounding their brains. I'll bet liquid seeps in in the case of whole body patients who do not have burr holes too (i.e., at CI and TT). The take home message here is very simple: the problem of LOX is potentially serious. Alcor has taken some steps to inhibit LOX buildup including NEVER reusing LN2 which is "dirty" (i.e., been used to cool down patients, been trasferred by buckets, exposed to the air, etc.). Also, it is my understanding that when transfer of patients becomes necessary in a dewar that has been running for a long time the LN2 is discarded. Finally, Hugh Hixon had (over a decade ago!) come up with a novel and ingenious scheme to deal with this problem, however I don't believe he ever got round to doing any work to test to out. How about Hugh? Also, we have excellent and very sensitive blood gas equipment which can also run expired air or atmospheric gases. I would be more than willing to work with Alcor to get some numbers on current LOX levels in various dewars. Perhaps we could all cooperate (CI, BPI, and ALCOR) and generate some data. I would be happy to write up a draft version of the paper which then could be submitted for publication at some mutually agreed place. This is an example of a problem which, while of special concern to cryonicists, may have broad utility and implications for others in the "straight" scientific community. Finally, finally, my apologies for error ridden text: Paul Wakfer is away (he normally handles E-mail) and I am using an unfamilar program to do E-mail which does not have spell-check capability and which makes editing VERY difficult. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=2195