X-Message-Number: 21998 References: <> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 02:16:24 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: Alternative Preservation Methods -- Addenda From: "D. den Otter" <> > Message #21956 > From: "Ben Best" <> [...] > Currently the only people I know of who have > shown a serious interest in chemical preservation > have been Mike Perry (because of the costs) and > Dalibor den Otter, who is mostly interested in > plastination. I personally believe that plastination > is a highly destructive preservation method and > Dalibor has yet to answer my doubts about this. Well, the truth is that very little research has been done in this specific area, so your doubts can't (fully) be answered at this time; not by me, in any case. Below is an old post from Wayne Lyons of the International Society for Plastination ( http://www.kfunigraz.ac.at/anawww/plast/ ). He basically says the same thing, that not much research has been done regarding the effects of plastination on various intracellular structures etc., but he does point to some people and publications which might provide as least *some* insight into the matter. Back in 2001 I posted this info to the cryonics-euro mailing list in reaction to a question by Eugene Leitl, but he didn't reply and since I was / am already convinced that plastination is "worthwhile" (see below), I didn't pursue the matter further. Technical details aside, the fact remains that plastination preserves a helluvalot more structural info than cremation or burial. Also, it is relatively cheap (USD 1,500 - 4,000 for a human brain) and has some major advantages when it comes to handling & storage. It is completely in line with the neo-Hippocratic imperative of "Always preserve as much as you can (afford)". Preserve first and ask (technical) questions later. It's the moral, rational, civilized, and aesthetic thing to do. All this "We can't do nuthin' until we have more data, more tests etc. etc." stuff reminds me of the frickin' FDA. Reality check: potential immortalists are probably dying as we speak. They have nothing to lose except a couple of thousand bucks, perhaps, which they can't take with them anyway. For those who wish to spread the general ethic of immortalism, this should really be a no-brainer. Even symbolic preservation is better than willful destruction; only barbarians bury or burn their death. We definitely hold the moral high ground on this one, and should fear no critic. Once again, for the record: if you can afford regular cryonics or vitrification services, fine, by all means sign up for those and don't bother with the lo-tek stuff. If, however, for whatever reason you can't afford life insurance, plastination or some similar low-budget procedure is "the next best thing", and indeed your only remotely realistic chance to survive your own death. Btw, plastination isn't some kind of fixation or dogma. I'm exploring other cheap preservation methods -primarily freeze drying and refrigerated alcohol storage- as well, and I'm always open to suggestions. Personally, I think the permafrost part of PF burial is a bit too cumbersome and expensive for those not living in or near the PF zone, but whole body "super embalming" in combination with airtight storage and *artificial* refrigeration (standard freezer, ~-18*C?) might be practically feasible, though only if either a new organization is founded for this purpose, or one of the existing cryo orgs would be willing to do this "on the side". As a compromise, you could freeze dry or super embalm just brains or heads, encase them in some kind of resin (a cube), and then then put them in a regular or "fancy" freezer. A large chest freezer could easily house a dozen or so brains / heads. It would have most, if not all, of the advantages of plastination, minus the presumably destructive "defatting". All of this could be done at a fraction of the cost of cryonics procedures, with practically zero risk of another Chatsworth Debacle because a) maintenance costs, i.e. electricity for the (standard) freezer and the purchase of a new unit every decade or so would be very low, and b) freeze dried / chemo-preserved and resin-encapsulated specimens can survive at RT "indefinitely". The "perfect" low-budget solution! ============ Post regarding ultrastructure preservation in plastinated specimens, May 2001. From: Wayne Lyons <> [...] In regards to your request about ultrastructural preservation of brain specimens and degradation of plastinated specimens, I don't think that much work has been done on these two subjects, in respect to plastination. With respect to ultrastructural microscopy I will refer you to work by J. Klemstein. I recall him giving a presentation ,at the 2nd World Congress on Mummy Studies, Cartagena, Columbia , 1994, on electron microscopy of plastinated specimens. You may want to try and contact him. Another article of his on electron microscopy of plastinated specimens appeared in "Der Preparator" 28(3): 305-312, 1982. I hope you have luck in finding some information. I do not have a present address for him. In regards to the degredation of plastinated specimens I would refer you to the following reference: "Plastination as a Consolidation Technique for Archaeological Bone, Waterlogged Leather and Waterlogged Wood", 1966: Master of Art Conservation Thesis , Faculty of Arts and Science, Queen's University, Kingston, Ontario. Canada K7l 3N6 by Vera De La Cruz Baltazar. Vera was a student under my supervision when she did this thesis. The thesis deals with the degradation factors of the S-10 polymer. We are in the process of completing a paper on this work. It will be submitted to the Journal of The Society for Plastination by the end of March (hopefully). If you would like to obtain a copy of the thesis you might contact one of the following: 1.The Department of Art Conservatyion Queen's University Kingston, Ontario Canada K7L 3N6 2. Canadian Conservation Institute 1030 Innes Avenue Ottawa, Ontario Canada. K1A 0C8 3. International Centre for the Study of the Preservation and the Restoration of Cultural Property, Rome, Italy 4. or you can try these e-mail addresses: or I hope this information helps you. If I can be of any further assistance, please let me know. Regards Wayne Wayne Lyons Senior Technician Department of Anatomy and Cell Biology Botterell Hall, Rm. 949 Queen's University Kingston, Ontario Canada. K7L 3N6 Tel. (613) 533-2600 Ext. 74200 Fax. (613)533-2566 === Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=21998