X-Message-Number: 22021 References: <> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:48:38 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Copal, cheap long-term preservation protocols From: "D. den Otter" <> > Message #22014 > From: > from Dalibor den Otter: > >> Well, the truth is that very little research has been done in this >> specific area, so your doubts can't (fully) be answered at this time; >> not >> by me, in any case. Below is an old post from Wayne Lyons of the >> International Society for Plastination >> ( http://www.kfunigraz.ac.at/anawww/plast/ ). He basically says the same >> thing, that not much research has been done regarding the effects of >> plastination on various intracellular structures etc., > > Copal, is a kind of natural plastination, it seems I am the only one in > the > world to be interested by that solution. As pointed out elsewhere, such > solutions can't compete with cryonics on the quality basis, but they could > be used as > substitute if there was a big thaw because of social/economics disorder or > political/religious implemented destruction. Well, that aside, the relatively low cost of such procedures would significantly lower the preservation threshold, which can only be a good thing IMO. Anyway, do you think copal encasement would be superior to storage in a polyester resin, such as the one used for Plastamounts (see http://www.carolina.com/general/departments/mounting_services.asp , scroll down)? The latter is widely used and should thus be much easier and cheaper to obtain [than copal]. A standard cryo-alternative procedure using largely "off the shelf" services, hardware, and materials could go as follows: 1) After deanimation the body is cooled and transported to a mortuary where the head (or whole body, if a head-only perfusion is too difficult) is 2) generously perfused with embalming fluid or some other ("custom" -- for ex. sorbitol, see http://keithlynch.net/cryonet/54/65.html ) preservative / fixative. 3) The brain is then removed and placed in a freeze dryer (a Taxi Dry http://www.freezedry.com/t_models.htm or some custom model) where it is treated for approx. 1-2 months. 4) Afterwards, the now chemopreserved and dessicated brain is encased in a polyester resin (cubical Plastamount, see above). 5) After it has properly hardened etc., it is finally placed in a regular household freezer, where it will remain until Resurrection Day. Should the "cryonics" organization -or society as a whole- go belly up, the brains, sealed inside some sturdy stainless metal or plastic container for added protection, could presumably be stored "indefinitely" in some cool, dark place (grave, crypt, cellar etc.), or could even be given a permafrost burial. Along with them should ideally be stored some CD ROMs or some more robust information carriers with detailed medical and personal info. Anything & everything that might somehow be relevant. It's fairly reasonable to assume that whoever has the tech to revive a thusly preserved brain also has the means to read and correctly interpret the data. The above method would be low-cost, robust, and generally convenient (handling, storage, evacuation in case of an emergency). PR-wise it is fairly neutral (just some brains in plastic, not half as "scary" as, say, frozen heads). Potential customers would be poor or stingy immortalists, and those who have serious doubts about the long-term viability of cryonics organizations (and/or civilized society). In its most basic form the EF(D)P (embalm, freeze dry, plastinate) method requires no new tech, no further research, and just a modest investment (primarily a $11,000 freeze dryer, though maybe the tech savvy could build a cheaper custom model). As has been pointed out before, risks are minimal and potential gains quite large (personal survival, spread of the immortalist meme, lowering of the preservation threshold). > I can test the product but I have no microscope to see what happen at cell > level and beyond. This can always be done later. In the meantime, why not simply try to preserve as much as possible via low-tech / budget methods like the one described above? All it takes is a few dedicated people and, realistically, a little help from one of the (active or inactive, past, present & future) cryonics organizations. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=22021