X-Message-Number: 22202 From: "Steve Harris" <> References: <> Subject: Re: CryoNet #22194 Becker and Death Denial Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:59:37 -0700 ----- Original Message ----- From: "CryoNet" <> To: <> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 2:00 AM Subject: CryoNet #22194 - #22198 > The web site indicated that the late Becker has somewhat of a fan > club. But I really doubt we are going to see much support for cryonics > from this direction, or even much insight into understanding why cryonics > does so poorly in the marketplace of ideas. > > Keith Henson COMMENT: I think you're wrong, Keith. Certainly, you should read the book before offering your opinion. Becker's _Denial of Death_ doesn't mention cryonics. But I think it does indeed have a lot of wisdom for why the cryonics idea doesn't do well in the marketplace of ideas. I can't give you a full synopsis of this complex and interesting book, but Becker's message is essentially that Freud should have stopped for emphasis when he noted that every human eventually comes up against the problem of the reality of human existence. Which reality is that we thinking creatures are basically organic tubes infesting a ball of mud in the middle of nowhere, doomed to stuff food into one end of ourselves while crap comes out the other, until all too soon we each rot, fall apart, and are obliterated. Nor is there anything any of us can do about this really, really bad situation, also known as the human condition. Faced with this situation, nearly all humans reject it, as being too horrible to contemplate. That is a primal psychological problem and primal solution-- the latter much more primal than even Freud (who had a lot of his own denial systems working) was prepared to admit. Freud went on to postulate that people have an instinct for death as a good thing. Becker says baloney. He thinks Freud's pupil Otto Rank came nearer the truth (that our instinct is purely for life and death-rejection for ourselves), and Becker spends much time in the book deciphering Rank for the average reader. Becker would probably say that cryonics is rejected automatically by the average person, because cryonics is materialistic and naturalistic. It thus simply forces anybody who really thinks seriously about it, to renew his or her acknowledgement of the reality of the actual human condition, for long enough to consider cryonics as a possible long-shot escape from it. And that is a damn hard thing to do. It takes serious mental fortitude to get through a couple of weeks of cryonics signup, in which you need to consider your precious body as no more than a piece of fancy and animated pile of atoms which is probably without a separate immaterial "soul," and then go on from there, though every variation of what to do with the thing after your heart and your consciousness stop, and your mind is reduced to a nonfunctional damaged and degraded hunk of software, stuck somewhere on a 20 cm rapidly deteriorating ball of meat. Becker would probably have said that cryonics itself is just one more way of mentally denying the human condition, because in the end, cryonicists really cannot stand to face up to the full reality of what our situation really is, either. And I think Becker, right or wrong about the workability of cryonics, would still have been onto something there as regards why cryonicists practice cryonics. Becker said that _The Denial of Death_ was his first mature work, and it does mark his Nietzschean slaying of the dragons of all of his own formal educational props and student illusions. Alas, two years after completing the book, at about the age of 50, Becker he was dead of cancer that he hadn't known he had, at the time of writing. So it goes. That's the human condition again, but we can at least admire the man for facing up to an unpleasant truth for a little while, before he himself disappeared from our little dust mote, and was gone. And before he left us with this gem. So why do cryonicists freeze themselves? Because we have given in and admitted to ourselves our organic plight, and we have decided to take a long-shot gamble as regards a science-based way out of the problem. We have done this by placing our faith on the hoped-for medical and technical abilities of people who haven't been born yet. Do we admit to ourselves how long a long-shot it all really is? Generally, no. Thus, Becker is correct. He is a psychiatrist who has transcended his teachers, and no fool as regards human psychology. It is my opinion that a reading of the very readable Becker will not be wasted on anybody who is seriously looking for the truth of this matter. If any on this list there be. Steve Harris Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=22202