X-Message-Number: 22270
From: 
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:53:30 EDT
Subject: simulations again

--part1_2f.3d03c619.2c5919ca_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

The questions Francois asks about sumulation have been discussed many times, 
but for latecomers here's my condensation:

Yes, a brain and its activities in principle could probably be simulated in a 
digital computer, or analogized in a different physical medium or substrate. 
Whether the product would have subjective life is unknown, but for the digital 
computer it seems highly unlikely.

The reason is that "information processing" is NOT necessarily the whole 
story. A simulation is a description, and a description is not necessarily the 

thing nor "as good as" the thing. In other words, isomorphism is not necessarily
all that is important.

When we understand the physical basis (anatomy and physiology) of qualia, 
then we will be in a better position to guess whether subjective life is 
attainable in other than organic brains.

Robert Ettinger
----------------------------
In a message dated 7/30/2003 5:01:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
 writes:

> 
> Message #22268
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 21:13:33 -0400
> From: Francois <>
> Subject: Simulating a human brain in a computer
> 
> Ok, lets push this as far as it can go. Suppose you build the simulated
> brain out of simulated atoms. Compared to a brain, atoms are quite simple.
> It is possible today to simulate the chemical behavior of atoms and
> molecules in a computer. You can, for example, "crystalize" virtual water
> molecules and grow virtual ice crystals that are structured exactly like
> their real world counterparts. I have at home a screensaver program that
> researchers use to evaluate the chemical behavior of potential cancer
> fighting drugs. So lets go all out and assemble a virtual brain with those
> virtual atoms and molecules. You'd need a pretty big and fast computer to do
> it, but there is nothing in principle to prevent this from being done. Would
> such a humongous program be sentient? After all, you could say that
> sentience would emerge from the collective behavior of the simulated atoms,
> just like it emerges from the collective behavior of our physical atoms.
> 
> Going in another direction, can a computer program be sentient, not by
> trying to simulate a human brain, but by itself, through some clever and
> appropriate programming, like Hall9000 in 2001 a space odyssey, or commander
> Data in StarTrek?
> 
> Finally, can a machine be constructed that will work just like a human
> brain, not through digital simulation programs but through an assemblage of
> material and structures that would process information the same way our
> brains do?
> 
> Francois
> -----------------------------------------------------------------


--part1_2f.3d03c619.2c5919ca_boundary

 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

[ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ] 

Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=22270