X-Message-Number: 22272 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:04:54 -0700 Subject: Simulated consciousness (was Simulating a human brain...) From: (Tim Freeman) From: Francois <> >Ok, lets push this as far as it can go. Suppose you build the >simulated brain out of simulated atoms. Compared to a brain, atoms are >quite simple. ... Would such a humongous program be sentient? One standard argument against this is that simulated consciousness, self-awareness, emotions, etc., aren't consciousness, self-awareness, emotions, etc., for the same reason that simulated milk on the breakfast cereal isn't very filling. A simulation of a thing is not the thing. I have not read a good response to this, but I believe this is one: A simulated calculator is a fine calculator (I carry one with me all the time and it works!), and in general a simulation of something has all the computational properties of the thing itself. So we have to decide whether emotions etc. are computational properties. I think they are; a simulated Robert Ettinger would purport to be just as convinced about self-circuits as the real Robert Ettinger, assuming the self-circuit, if any, was included in the simulation, and the simulated Ettinger would project the same level of stubbornness and any other emotions that might be generated by the real Ettinger. Since it would have the same evidence available as the real Ettinger and it would reach the same conclusions, its arguments would be just as valid as those of the original. Even my own emotions are a computational property. For all I know, the aliens landed while I was sleeping last night, ate all or part of my brain, and replaced the part they consumed with some other device that simulates the original computation. If it's a simulation that gets the same job done as the original, and I don't get my head x-rayed, I'd never know. By Occam's razor, there's no point in distinguishing between two entities if the distinction doesn't make a difference, so it makes sense to say that a simulation of an emotion is the emotion. It would be fun to confront the simulated Ettinger with an x-ray of his head. "This large gray area is a sponge to keep loose parts from rattling around, and the centrally-located speck with all the wires coming out is the computational node. Be sure to recharge it regularly by sleeping on this pillow, and plug in the pillow. The original had a non-functioning self-circuit, possibly due to some head injury when you were a child. Since it didn't work during almost all of your life we left it out of this simulation." That's a project for some other decade. Okay, so I'm being provocative. Tee hee. -- Tim Freeman GPG public key fingerprint ECDF 46F8 3B80 BB9E 575D 7180 76DF FE00 34B1 5C78 Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=22272