X-Message-Number: 22330
From: 
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 10:50:10 EDT
Subject: choices; time and space

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Harvey Newstrom writes in part:

> We can
> agree on every concept, every action, down to every atom, and still disagree
> on identity, labeling, and success on a particular upload procedure.  These
> are individual choices resulting in label preferences, and not objective
> 

I'm afraid this is ducking the question, which is what we OUGHT to choose, 
and I think this can be made objective in the appropriate sense.

Brook Norton writes in part:

>Shifting gears to Bob's position that the qualia must "span time."  I don't 
see it.  I see the point that conciousness cannot exist in an instant.  That 
it takes some finite time to integrate recent (last 1/2 sec?) events into a 

working awareness.  But I don't see the qualia doing any special, not-understood
physics, to achieve "time spanning."  A rolling wheel cannot roll in a instant 
either.  It must pass through finite time before we consider its motion 

"rolling".  But a wheel need not "span time" in any special sense.  Likewise, I 
see 
the qualia as tapping the brain's memories of the last fractions of a second, 
and integrating those memeories, perhaps in a standing wave, to achieve 
conciousness.  No spanning of time required.<

Many things (everything?) must span time or/and space to exist. In a simple 
instance, a molecule must include a region of non-zero volume. A brain, or the 
important part(s) of a brain, must include a non-zero volume. A standing wave 
must include a non-zero interval of time as well as space. 

All such speculations must be highly tentative, since we know almost nothing 
about time, and space is also mysterious and controversial.

Robert Ettinger


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