X-Message-Number: 22345 Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 12:05:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Skrecky <> Subject: Space, Time, Qualia In Message #22334 wrote: > Scott Badger writes in part: > >Ettinger s notion of a > standing wave in the brain, the various states of > which constitute qualia ......... sounds like Dualism to me, > .... > qualia strike me as epiphenomenal side-effects > of normal brain processes. > > I don't want to get into a discussion of epiphenomena, or whether there are > any such things, but certainly we have to consider our own subjective > experiences as "normal." As to the last sentence above, I'm not quite sure > what it means, and it needs to be reworked, I think. > Agreed, qualia are a rather slippery subject. If one defines brain processes as autonomous from qualia, so that qualia are a mere epiphenomena, then Occam's razor eliminates all qualia. Stated otherwise, if all brain processes occur truely independantly of the existence of qualia, then qualia are entirely epiphenomena. If a brain process is truely independant of the existence of qualia, then it can not veridically report on qualia. If all qualia are entirely epiphenomena, then no brain process can attest to the existence of qualia. Since some brain processes do truefully attest to qualia, then qualia can not be entirely epiphenomena, and some brain processes can not be entirely described by purely material (qualia free) references. Space, time, qualia - go figure. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=22345