X-Message-Number: 22378 From: Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 10:29:26 EDT Subject: subsimulations --part1_159.232a36a3.2c723cc6_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Added reminders: First, as to Mike Perry's "frames of reference"--the notion that e.g. a static record, including time isomorphism, could still include active life of an individual in the frame of reference of that simulation. It seems to me this is justifying your postulate by trying to make it a definition--just playing with words. A sequence of film frames for a motion picture can be run on screen to give the illusion of action, and the static frames can be mentally interpreted as representing action, but to say that the frames in fact constitute action seems to me unjustified, just word games. Second, think again a moment about subsimulations. If the upmorphists are right, maybe we are living in a simulation. For fairly obvious reasons, if there existed any simulation of a substantial part of the universe and its history, the simulated people (at roughly our stage of development or a little higher) would necessarily create their own worlds of subsimulation, and in fact there would be a cascade of such. Now, I said earlier that a simulation might allow its creatures to modify the program to work magic. Suppose this is not the case, that nothing done inside the program can modify the laws of nature as enshrined in the program. Even in that case, the programmer in the metaworld could modify the program and work miracles. Furthermore, even if those "in" the computer could not see the outside world or directly affect it, the programmer could see the simulation. Therefore the simulated people could "pray" by making requests to the programmer, who could then work miracles if he chose. In fact, the simulations might become smarter than the programmer and control him psychologically, making him in effect a captive genie. There's a nice science fiction premise that I haven't seen anywhere. Robert Ettinger --part1_159.232a36a3.2c723cc6_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" [ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ] Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=22378