X-Message-Number: 22385 From: "David Pizer" <> Subject: Response to Peter's questions Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 04:41:15 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C366D5.4A72A380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" CRYOFREINDS I AM NOT AFFILIATED WITH ALCOR MANAGEMENT ANY MORE, AND THESE QUESTIONS MAY NOT BE APPROPRIATE FOR ALCOR TO ANSWER SINCE ALCOR HAS ANNOUNCED THEY ARE FILING SUIT AGAINST JOHNSON (ONCE SOMEONE FILES SUIT OR ANNOUNCES THEY ARE GOING TO FILE SUIT, THEIR ATTORNEY USUALLY ADVISES THEM NOT TO DISCUSS THE CASE IN PUBLIC ANYMORE.) SO IT MAY BE THE CASE THAT ALCOR WILL NOT BE SAYING MUCH ABOUT THIS CASE IN THIS FORUM UNTIL AFTER A DECISION IN COURT HAS BEEN RENDERED. WHAT WE WILL PROBABLY HEAR WILL BE ALCOR PRESS RELEASES IN AN OFFICIAL FORM FROM TIME TO TIME. BELOW IS MY PERSONAL OPINION. DAVID PETER MEREL ASKED I hope Alcor folk won't be troubled that I ask these on cryonet. I think they're relevant to all of us: 1) That LJ had medical skills of value I don't doubt. But how did he come to be named COO? IT WAS A MISTAKE. ALCOR MAKES MISTAKES FROM TIME TO TIME, THEY NEVER CLAIM TO BE PERFECT. CHARLES PLATT HIRED LARRY AND AT THE TIME CHARLES PROBABLY THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD DECISION. RETIRED ALCOR PRESIDENT, STEVE BRIDGE, A LITTLE BEFORE LARRY WENT ON ATTACK, CAUTIONED THE BOARD ABOUT USING NEWCOMERS AS PEOPLE WITH AUTHORITY AT ALCOR. I DON'T THINK THERE IS A VALID EXPLANATION EXCEPT THAT IT WAS "A MISTAKE." IN FACT, IT HAS BEEN SAID THAT STEVE'S COMMENTS ARE THINGS THAT MADE LARRY EVEN ANGRIER. ALSO, ALCOR HAS OTHER EMPLOYEES THAT ARE NOT OLD TIME CRYONICISTS AND THEY ARE EXCELLENT WORKERS. 2) Tim Freeman is right - the sports illustrated story isn't actually worse press than Alcor had on the TW thing before. And Alcor have responded appropriately. THE SPORTS ILLUSTRATED STORY SHOULD BE A WAKE-UP CALL TO ALL CRYONICISTS AND PHYSICAL IMMORTALISTS THAT THE AMERICAN PUBLIC, THE MAJORITY, DOESN'T UNDERSTAND IT AND DOESN'T LIKE CRYONICS AT ALL. I DON'T THINK ALCOR CAN "RESPOND APPROPRIATELY." IT WOULD LOOK ARROGANT AND STRIDENT FOR ALCOR TO APPROPRIATELY RESPOND THAT TED GOT THE PROPER ATTENTION AT HIS LEGAL DEATH VIA HAVING A CRYONIC SUSPENSION, AND THEREFORE IMPLY THAT EVERYONE ELSE THAT GETS BURIED OR CREMATED IS DOING SOMETHING WRONG. ONE REASON NON-CRYONICSTS DON'T LIKE US IS THAT EVERY SUSPENSION WE DO IS A STATEMENT THAT THEY (THE NON-CRYONICISTS WHO BURY OR CREMATE THEIR LOVED ONES) ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONG. ITS HARD TO PRACTICE, AND PUBLICLY DEFEND, OUR BELIEFS WHEN THEY OFFEND EVERYONE ELSE. But how about following up by giving SI a full guided tour and showing them exactly where and how TW is stored - let them make a big photo montage of their hero - leverage the bad publicity into good? SPORTS ILLUSTRATED IS THE LAST MAGAZINE IN THE WORLD THAT WOULD TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT CRYONICS IS ALL ABOUT. IT WOULD BE LIKE INVITING ADOLPH HITLER TO TOUR A SYNAGOGUE IN HOPES THAT HE WOULD THEN UNDERSTAND THE JEWISH PEOPLE AND QUIT THROWING THEM IN THE OVENS, CONVERT AND FOREVER MORE WEAR ONE OF THOSE LITTLE BEANIES ON HIS HEAD. 3) It seems like Alcor needs a considerably more rigorous security protocol. If LJ is as nuts as he appears, then I'm not happy that he had free access to the facilities. Apart from stealing equipment, he could easily have damaged the people in the dewars. How can security be addressed without compromising quality of service? And how does Alcor's security protocol differ from that of the other orgs? ALCOR TAKES STEPS TO PROTECT PATIENTS FROM OUTSIDERS BUT NOTHING IS FOOLPROOF. NOT ONLY DID LARRY HAVE FREE ACCESS TO THE FACILITY, BUT WHEN CHARLES PLATT TOLD THE BOARD HE (CHARLES) WANTED TO TAKE LESS RESPONSIBILITY FOR SUSPENSIONS AND SPEND MORE TIME LIVING A NORMAL LIFE, LARRY WAS PROBABLY THE PERSON WHO WAS GOING TO BE HANDLING THE SUSPENSIONS. I THINK LARRY'S ORIGINAL BEEF WAS ALL OVER MONEY - HE PROBABLY WANTED MORE. WHEN HE DID NOT GET IT HE PROBABLY THOUGHT OF OTHER WAYS TO HURT ALCOR ON HIS WAY OUT. HE PROBABLY THINKS (IN HIS OWN TWISTED MIND) THAT HE IS THE VICTIM AND THAT ALCOR IS THE BAD GUY. AS FAR AS STEALING STUFF, THAT IS A MINOR PART OF ALL THIS. LARRY HAD AN AGREEMENT WITH ALCOR TO HOLD THINGS CONFIDENTIAL AND HE BROKE THAT AGREEMENT. NOW HE SEEMS TO ME TO BE GREEDY AND DISHONEST. BUT I DO NOT KNOW IF THERE WAS ANY WAY FOR ALCOR TO DETERMINE THAT BEFORE HE WAS HIRED. WHEN I MET HIM A FEW TIMES AT ALCOR HE SEEMED MILD-MANNERED, SOFT SPOKEN, AND CLAIMED TO BE A CRYONICS. WAS IT ALL PART OF A PRECONCEIVED PLAN OR JUST A GREEDY EMPLOYEE TRYING TO HURT THEIR EMPLOYER AFTER THE FACT? I DON'T THINK WE WILL EVER KNOW FOR SURE. 4) LJ will have obtained some compensation both from Alcor and from SI for his efforts, so is worth suing. CHARLES PLATT STATED EARLIER IN A POST THAT SI DOES NOT PAY ITS REPORTERS/CONTRIBUTORS FOR STUFF LIKE THIS. IN CRYONET TODAY, CHARLES STATED THAT HE THINKS IT WOULD BE HARD TO HOLD SI RESPONSIBLE FOR THE BAD THINGS THEY HAVE DONE. THEY ARE PRETTY GOOD AT PROTECTING THEMSELVES. AS FAR AS "IS HE (LARRY) WORTH SUING" THAT IS NOT AN EASY QUESTION TO ANSWER. A SUIT AGAINST LARRY WILL BE EXPENSIVE. IT WILL COST A LOT OF MONEY AND IT WILL DRAG ON FOR YEARS. IF ALCOR GETS A JUDGEMENT AGAINST LARRY IT IS PROBABLY THE CASE THAT LARRY DOESN'T HAVE ANY ASSETS TO COLLECT AGAINST. WHAT IF THE JURY DECIDES AGAINST THE EVIDENCE AND GOES WITH THEIR NATURAL FEELINGS THAT CRYONICS (AND SO ALCOR) IS WRONG AND BAD? WHEN ALCOR HAS BEEN IN LITIGATION IN THE PAST, I HAVE SEEN PRODUCTIVITY GO DOWN AT ALCOR AS STAFF MEMBERS WORRY AND THINK ABOUT THE LAWSUIT. THERE WILL BE A COST IN THIS AREA. ON THE OTHER HAND, STAFF MEMBERS MAY FEEL BAD AND THEREFORE THERE MAY BE OTHER PROBLEMS IF LARRY GETS AWAY WITH HIS ATTACK ON ALCOR. HOW CAN ONE WEIGH ALL THE EFFECT ACCURATELY? ALCOR HAS TO WEIGH THE RISKS OF SPENDING MONEY AND MAYBE GETTING BAD PRESS ALONG THE WAY OF THE SUIT AGAINST THE POSSIBLE BENEFIT OF WINNING A JUDGEMENT IN THE END AND FEELING VINDICATED. MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION IS THAT SINCE THIS WILL BE DECIDED BY TWELVE NON-CRYONICS PERSONS IN A JURY AND SINCE MOST NON-CRYONICISTS DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT WE ARE DOING AND DON'T LIKE WHAT WE ARE DOING, A LOT OF THOUGHT HAS TO GO INTO ANY PENDING LAWSUIT. IN A PERFECT WORLD I ASSUME ALCOR WOULD SUE LARRY AND COLLECT DAMAGES AND THE LAW WOULD ALSO PUNISH HIM CRIMINALLY AND HE WOULD SERVE TIME - WE DON'T LIVE IN A PERFECT WORLD. But SI itself is a much fatter pigeon - if LJ was acting as their agent in all this, can't they be sued directly? ANYONE CAN BE SUED, BEING SUED MERELY INVOLVES FILING A SUIT AGAINST SOMEONE. WHAT YOU PROBABLY MEAN IS CAN THEY BE "SUCCESSFULLY SUED." THAT IS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT QUESTIONS IN FRONT OF ALCOR DIRECTORS AT THIS TIME. SOMETIMES ONE SUES WHEN THEY ARE IN THE RIGHT 100%, AND THEY STILL LOSE AND THEN THEY HAVE TO PAY THE OTHER SIDE. GETTING JUSTICE HAS ITS RISKS. THAT'S WHY THERE IS SO LITTLE JUSTICE IN THE WORLD AT THIS TIME. 5) Can TW's remains be transported to the other orgs so they can get some free publicity as well? :-) Peter Merel. ---------------------------------------------------- PIZER'S FINAL COMMENTS THE SAD PART OF ALL THIS IS THAT TED PROBABLY GOT A PRETTY GOOD SUSPENSION COMPARED TO MANY OF THE PREVIOUS SUSPENSIONS DONE BEFORE WHAT IS NOW CALLED "VITRIFICATION SUSPENSIONS." TED WAS AN ATHEIST WHO HELD NO BELIEF IN A SPIRITUAL AFTERLIFE. THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT THE NOTE TED LEFT IN A PACT WITH HIS TWO CHILDREN IS REALLY WHAT HE WANTED - HE WANTED TO BE CRYONICALLY SUSPENDED. ALCOR IS COMING UNDER FIRE FOR HONORING TED'S LAST WISHES. JUST THE OPPOSITE OF REALITY IS BEING PORTRAYED IN SOME OF THE MEDIA. IN THIS IMPERFECT WORLD, SPORTS ILLUSTRATED CAN PLAY LIKE THEY ARE TRYING TO PROTECT TED IN SOME WAY WHILE THEY DISTORT FACTS AND DEPEND ON OBVIOUSLY DISHONEST, PERSONALLY-MOTIVATED INDIVIDUALS FOR THEIR INFORMATION - I BELIEVE THAT ALL THEY REALLY WANT TO DO IS SELL MORE ISSUES SO THEY CAN MAKE MORE PROFIT, AND THEY HAVE NO REGARD FOR TRUTH OR WHO THEY HURT IN THEIR DESIRE TO GET MORE MONEY. DAVID ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C366D5.4A72A380 Content-Type: text/html; [ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ] Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=22385