X-Message-Number: 22387
From: 
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:25:23 EDT
Subject: Re: CryoNet #22375 - #22383

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Tim Hanson writes (below) about a web site that explains the peculiar Swiss 
position on assisted suicide (legal, if the assistor has  altruistic 

motivation) and euthanasia (illegal).  Thus it seems that if his motivation is 
not 
selfish a doctor could provide drugs and you could take them (you are directly 
killing yourself) but he could not legally kill you directly (i.e. he couldn't 
shoot you, or whatever a doctor would do -- inject drugs for example.)    

Thus a cryonaut would have to terminate his own life, probably via a Dr. 

Kovorkian type suicide machine.  Presumably the doctor could connect it but 
you'd 
have to press the button yourself.  I think it might be ideal to connect to a 
main artery and cool the blood -- which I think is used to cool the body prior 
to brain or heart surgery sometimes now.   I guess a physician would make the 
connection but not turn on the machine.  You would press the button, then 
take some kind of  anesthetic so you would feel no discomfort from the cold.  
Possibly, as the anesthetic took effect, you could roll over into some kind of 
ice bath -- or you could start out on dry bedding in a tub, and  the machine 
would automatically flood it with ice water when you lapsed unconscious.  (The 

point being to wait until you couldn't feel it.) Cooling would be gradual so all
the tissues would be very cold before the heart stopped.  At which point 

death would be declared and technicians from a cryonics organization would 
freeze 
you in the normal way, but from a far better "starting point" than usual.

I agree with Tim that it would be useful to check with a Swiss physician or 
lawyer.   

Perhaps some animal studies could be done on freezing techniques and how cold 
you can get the body before the heart quits, and what it takes to make the 
process painless.

And, BTW, thanks for finding that site Tim -- it's a good one.

Alan Mole

> Recently a terminally ill english man left Britain, travelled to 
> Switzerland 
> and  terminated his life through 'Dignitas'.  So I can confirm that the 
> facility is available to non Swiss residents.  The media did their usual 
> sensationalisation of the story by suggesting that his relatives should be 
> criminalised 
> for assisting him in actually leaving the country but fortunately, even the 
> authorities saw reason on this occasion and finally issued a statement 
> saying 
> that although they didn't agree with the actions of the relatives, criminal 
> proceedings against them would be inappropriate.
> 
> 
> At the time I checked out the website that details the law that allows 
> 'Dignitas' to operate  and found that by American and British standards the 
> Swiss 
> would permit a far better standard of preservation methodology to be 
> performed 
> without the breaking of their laws.  The major downside is that the law 
> states 
> quite clearly that no individual or organisation is allowed to profit from 
> the 
> demise of the 'suicidee'.  This is where you would need to employ specialist 
> 
> legal expertise as 'Dignitas' is registered as a charitable organisation run 
> 
> by volunteer staff.  As to whether any of the existing cryonics 
> organisations 
> would be regarded in the same way with full time employees and supporting 
> the 
> liabilities of a private company is  something that I am not qualified to 
> say . 
> I know that Alcor is a 'non profit' organisation with no issued stock, 
> shareholders,  and pays no dividends, however, as to whether this meets the 
> Swiss 
> criteria for 'non profit' would need further investigation.  I know that 
> their 
> are probably many ways around this but it would still need someone with the 
> necessary expertise in international law to identify them.
> 
> IMO it's definetely worth the time of someone with the legal expertise to 
> look further into this issue.  I've included a link that is a good starting 
> point 
> for those who may want to research this thread further.
> 

> <A 
HREF="http://www.chninternational.com/switzerland_and_assisted_suicide.htm">SWITZERLAND
AND ASSISTED SUICIDE</A> 
> 
> Regards.....
> 
> Tim Hanson.
> 
> 


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