X-Message-Number: 22577 From: "Steve Harris" <> References: <> Subject: Re: CryoNet #22570 The AAGA and Arizona politics Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:41:38 -0700 > Message #22570 > From: "Mark Plus" <> > Subject: Some Officials Want State Regulation Of Cryonics Firm > Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:15:03 -0700 > > http://www.azcapitoltimes.com/main.asp?SectionID=2&SubSectio nID=2&ArticleID=275 > > Some Officials Want State Regulation Of Cryonics Firm > New York, Florida Have Laws Overseeing Industry > > By Phil Riske > > > The Scottsdale cryonics facility that a leading sports magazine reported > severed the head from the body of the late baseball great Ted Williams > should be regulated by the state, officials say. > > But We can t touch them, said Rudy Thomas, director of the Arizona Board > of Funeral Directors and Embalmers. COMMENT Ahem, here is Rudy Thomas, mistaking himself for the state. Sorry, but Thomas represents the state agency which regulates the state funeral industry, but not the part that controls anatomical donations. The state of Arizona under the Arizona Anatomical Gift Act (AAGA revised 1996) does have control over some aspects of how bodies get to Alcor, under what circumstances they leave Alcor, and to a minimal extent what happens to them while they reside at Alcor (ie, procedures must be performed by physicians, surgeons, or "trained technicians.") > Mr. Thomas says Alcor Life Extension Foundation, which preserves bodies in > liquid nitrogen tanks in hopes they might someday be revived, is regulated > by the federal Uniform Anatomical Gifts Act, which guides the operations of > organ donation organizations and research labs. Arizona has a similar > anatomical gift statute, but the state has no regulatory authority over > Alcor, he said. COMMENT Wrong. The AAGA would prohibit Alcor from outright selling, or exchanging for valuable consideration, body parts to third parties not covered under the AAGA, for example. Sell is not the same as charging "reasonable payment for the removal, processing, disposal, preservation, quality control, storage, transportation, or implantation or a body part" if the recipient institution is also covered in the AAGA. Alcor cannot transfer body parts to parties, except as specified by the AAGA. When Thomas says the state has *no* regulatory authority over Alcor, what he he's actually complaining about is that the Arizona Board of Funeral Directors and Embalmers doesn't wield state authority over Alcor, and the state therefore doesn't have as much authority as Thomas WANTS it to have, because Alcor is regulated in another part of the law. But that's not the same thing. > The gift act allows Alcor to acquire full legal custody over a body. COMMENT Yes, but "full" legal custody of a body is always still regulated all the time. In matters of transfer to third parties, again, AAGA regulation would remain in force. > The Arizona Anatomical Gift Act covers facilities licensed, accredited or > approved under the laws of any state for storage of human bodies and parts > and states that hospitals, organ procurement agencies and accredited medical > and dental schools may accept anatomical gifts for transplantation, > therapy, medical or dental science. > > Mr. Thomas told the St. Petersburg Times the Food and Drug Administration > has regulatory authority over cryonics facilities, but does not perform > regular inspections. > > Kathleen Quinn of the agency s public affairs office told Arizona Capitol > Times the agency oversees medical gases that are used in cryonics labs, > but said it was unclear whether the FDA has overall regulatory authority > over Alcor. COMMENT Yes, indeed. The UAGA is a set of federal guidelines for states in writing their laws, not a law itself. And FDA derives power only as human tissues are intended for therapeutic uses as covered in human medicine (or, I suppose, as human food use if anybody wanted to sell to cannibals). Scientific basic medical research with human tissue, in so far as it does not include intention to diagnose or treat disease, would not qualify for FDA control. (The USDA has power only over animals and animal tissues. And over animal tissues when included in human foods. Thus, cheese pizza is regulated by FDA, but add pepperoni and it becomes entirely a USDA problem). > If the Sports Illustrated report about Alcor s treatment of Mr. Williams s > remains is true, said Mr. Thomas, the facility is guilty of mutilation. > Arizona law prohibits mutilation of a body. Among several allegations made > by Larry Johnson, a former Alcor employee, are that Alcor severed Mr. > Williams s head, drilled holes in it and fractured the skull, the magazine > reported. > > That to me is mutilation, if it happened, Mr. Thomas said. COMMENT What is done to bodies at medical schools also might be "mutilation" to Mr. Thomas also, but that's irrelevant. The law in Arizona actually does not prohibit the mutilation of dead bodies it only becomes mutilation if done without force or coverage by law. The AAGA provides the law, and it specifically allows technicians to remove body parts, and so on, if the purpose is science or research. See http://www.azleg.state.az.us/legtext/42leg/2r/bills/hb2315p. htm. Funeral directors can't do that, and perhaps this is what Mr. Thomas is complaining about. But scientific institutions can, and funeral directors cannot, BECAUSE the AAGA, which is the relevant 1996 Arizona State Law, **is written that way.** Otherwise you can be sure Mr. Thomas wouldn't be complaining to the legislature about it, but rather would be going to the attorney general. Again, Mr. Thomas calls things "unregulated" when the state actually is explicitly authorizing an action that Mr. Thomas doesn't *like* (cutting up bodies for science). Regulating an action does not mean outlawing it, fortunately. > Mr. Thomas said he informed Lynette Evans, Governor Napolitano s policy > adviser for regulatory matters, of his concerns about Alcor, and Rep. Bob > Stump, R-Dist. 9, says he will introduce a bill next session to regulate > anatomical research facilities and companies that handle the donation of > human bodies and body parts. COMMENT They are already regulated. Just not put under the power of Mr. Thomas and his board. That's not happenstance. The federal uniform anatomical gift act (after which the Arizona statute is modeled) never intended funeral boards to regulate what happens to human bodies in scientific research. It's not appropriate. > New York and Florida have enacted laws regulating the cryonics industry, Mr. > Thomas said, and California and Michigan have applied existing statutes to > oversee the industry. COMMENT So has Arizona. Thomas doesn't like it. > Mr. Thomas has called for the creation of a state level board to regulate > Alcor, but Rep. Linda Gray, R-Dist. 10, said, It is a good idea to bring > this company under the regulation of the funeral directors instead of > creating another board. COMMENT If Thomas asked for cryonics be regulated by Board he represents, this would look like the naked power grab that it is. So what do we see, instead? Thomas deceptively asks for creation of a brand new state agency (which he knows will never happen), and then one of the legislators stands up right away to deliver the message that it's better to put things into the hands of good old Mr. Thomas and his boys (who we all know and love). Modest though they may be . > Mr. Thomas put aside the belief among Alcor supporters that medical > scientists someday might be able to revive bodies that have been frozen for > years. > > There s no difference between cryonics and cremation, he said. You re > gone forever. COMMENT In his opinion. However, meanwhile science has the last word, and more scientific studies are necessary to uncover the truth. The AAGA is the regulation written to support anatomical and medical studies of human tissues. There you are. Alcor needs to spend time with the sponsoring legislator to see how he got into the pocket of the funeral industry. Then to remind some of the other legislators that the AAGA already is the state's regulation intended to cover the practice of cutting up bodies for research. Alcor is regulated, just not in the way the funeral industry wants. SBH Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=22577