X-Message-Number: 22591 Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:32:03 -0700 Subject: The White Lodge of Cryonics From: Peter Merel <> Let's see, where are we up to? Both the main orgs have problems. I don't think it's fair to say the problems threaten their ability to continue. But it seems like if we lost a few more key players to injury or politics we'd reach that point. We place a terrible burden on those few of our number who are willing to shoulder it. Running a cryonics org isn't fun. It's isn't entrepreneurial. It's obviously a grind. If we had more adherents, more potential income sources, that might change. But the mode of presentation of cryonics we have used since the publication of Ettinger's book will never provide such change. We appeal to rationalists. And there simply aren't many of them. We're butting up against psychological fundamentals here. God and Death. Responses to these aren't hard-wired, thank goodness, or else even we pervects wouldn't have been able to shake 'em and approach the matter rationally ourselves. But plainly for 99.99+% of humanity, the scientific explanation of a rational precaution against an avoidable fate has no meaning at all. And that's fine. There's nothing wrong with those "deathists" we rail against. They're perfectly normal people. It's just that you can trust a perfectly normal person about as far as you can spit. No farther. It's we kinky immortalists who have the problem here. It's our problem, for us to solve. Once we honestly accept that - that we don't need to agree with the normals, but only to find a way to work with them - we might be able to do something about it. We need to create a class of people to tend our bodies when we've de-animated. Employees won't do it - anyone whose loyalties depend on the highest bidder isn't someone I want my existence to rely on for several decades. We need a class of people who are fundamentally and psychologically locked in to doing it. We need them to be mind-fucked into doing it. We need a class of true-believers, thralls, people who would actually die to keep the nitrogen topped up in the dewars. Do you suddenly feel a pang of guilt? Is it even slightly fair to ask someone to die so that you can have a chance to live again? Well, no, it's not. It's bald-faced egotism and megalomania to want to do that. And yet there are people who will do it for us. If not for us, for someone or something far stupider. Robert Anton Wilson's "Secret Of Power" is that "a disciple is an asshole looking for a human being to attach itself to". Since 99.99+ % of humanity are determined to be non-rational thralls to someone or something non-rational, is there really any terrible moral problem in proposing some proportion of them be thralls to US? Is Pete about to turn Elron on cryonet? No, I'm not proposing to do this per se. I'm proposing that we talk about it and turn it over in our minds. Look at the angles. I personally don't want to enslave anyone. I prefer to think we could do this by actually freeing enslaved minds. That people would enter such an organization in full-on disciple mode, and as they progressed through the ranks they'd be taught more and more rationality until, at the top, they'd become cryonicists and transhumanists themselves. Plainly this idea is distinct from Venturism, at least as that is presently contemplated. Venturism is a cult of rationality and fair-dealing - and so inherently self-limiting - where this would be a cult of irrationality and subterfuge. There are precedents for this; tao chia, the rationalistic/philosophical version of taoism, was preserved through multiple generations by allowing its tenets to be incorporated in tao chiao, the entirely loopy religious version of taoism. And then there's the jesuits and pythagoreans inside catholicism and the kabbalists inside judaism. Maybe we could adapt Shinto. The Shintoists are ancestor-worshippers, and scrupulous ones. If we could convince 'em that this is the best way for great grand pappa-san to smile on their endeavors ... but given where Cryonics is and who we are I think we'd be best off preying on the christians. Joe Smith's story is a veritable how-to manual for grafting your pet kink onto christianity. Smith's was polygamy where ours is immortalism. Can you think of any reason why the Mormons should have the big white marble temple in every town and we should not? Awaiting the pillory, Peter Merel. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=22591