X-Message-Number: 22592 Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:14:28 -0700 From: James Swayze <> Subject: On the other hand, re: cryonics vs funeral References: <> >Message #22581 >From: "Basie" <> >References: <> >Subject: Funeral Industry >Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:10:32 -0400 > >Many people in Cryonics live in a dream world. The funeral industry will >crush Cryonics as if it is a fruit fly. I think a small organization like >cryonics should avoid confrontation with giants. > >Basie > > Basie and folks, On the other hand, that fight may well be inevitable. If it is so then there is possibly some value in being in the position of or seen as a David versus Goliath. People, especially in this country, the US, love the underdog. In the US we have a strong and long tradition of distrusting large corporate or government interests that often seem not to have the best interests of the little folks at heart. I believe this is especially so recently with large corporate excesses such as Enron and Worldcom. While we are yet "the little guy" we may well have some public sympathy even though for some cryonics seems a little weird. Americans do still tend to feel everyone should be allwed to exercise free choices so long as it does not hurt others. So I guess I'm saying if the fight is to be fought someday regardless, is there value in having it now or will the environment be more favorable later? I only know I don't have that answer. However, I think the public is wise enough to choose against the funeral industry grabbing more powers if it were put to the public in the right frame such as: 1. Would you favor legislation that placed the funeral industry in control over universities, hospitals and medical research facilities for deciding what they are allowed to do with anatomical donations for research? 2. The funeral industry seeks to monopolize all aspects of what happens to deceased individuals including whether and where and how they may donate their remains for medical research. Do you feel this is wise? 3. If the current trend continues, where the funeral industry seeks to micro manage all aspects of the handling of deceased remains including organ and tissue and whole body donations for medical research, already established funerary laws would prevent hospitals, universities and medical research facilities from being able to house bodies and body parts for research. Furthermore, already established laws requiring embalming, even where bodies are kept in cold environments removing the need for embalming, would ruin tissues for medical research in many instances. Do you feel the funeral industry should seek such powers? 4. The Federal Uniform Anatomical Gift Act along with various individual state laws to the same effect currently and quite adequately regulate how and to what purpose, including respectful treatment, human remains may be put for purpose of research when voluntarily gifted by the deceased individual. Not satisfied with the inability to control these few instances of the handling of deceased individuals the funeral industry now seeks legislature to allow them to take control of these situations also. Existing funerary laws and bylaws, however, would seriously disrupt the ability for hospitals, universities and medical research facilities to house and maintain human remains uncontaminated with embalming procedures. Natural state remains are needed for valuable research that benefit everyone in studies for cures of diseases and disorders. Would you support such a monopolistic power grab by the funeral industry? I'm sure cleverer minds than mine here among us can come up with a few more. Shall we formulate our own poll and then a petition? We could of course modify these examples to fit the current Michigan and Arizona situations. For instance instead of "funeral industry " insert Mr. RT's agency and so on. There's another aspect here I feel needs pointing out. If our convictions are true, that cryonics is not a cemetary or intement system and the rules of the funerary industry when applied to cryonics affect our ability to act as a medical research facility, then it should be true also that hospitals, universities and other medical facilities are also hreatened and thus our natural allies. We then are not then the defiant little mouse boldly casting a middle digit at the eagle bearing down upon us... we are not alone. James -- Member: Cryonics Institute of Michigan http://www.cryonics.org The Immortalist Society http://www.cryonics.org/info.html The Society for Venturism http://www.venturist.org Immortality Institute http://www.imminst.org MY WEBSITE: http://www.davidpascal.com/swayze/ Signature Memetic Virus--The worst enemy of those who now or will need medical care is the uninformed politician or moral fanatic who proscribe what doctors are allowed to prescribe and research, with the consent of their patients. Those who understand this are strongly encouraged to modify this to fit their personality, and add this to their signature file, and organize to recover our freedom from Big Brother. For those who wait until they are sick, it will be too late. Those who suffer from diseases which might have been cured by advanced medical research or schedule 1 drugs banned by Big Brother, have the right to hold accountable those who sat on their hands or worse, deferred their responsibility for personal and humanity's survival to unseen mystical agents, while they remained ill and dying. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=22592