X-Message-Number: 22839 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:21:35 -0800 From: James Swayze <> Subject: Hiding from potential enemies of immortalism wont work [ALERT] The following books were all found when I stumbled upon this man's review of a Leon Kass book [Life, Liberty and the Defense of Dignity: The Challenge for Bioethics] during some research on Kass I am doing. Find his reviews at Amazon and see what I believe we are soon to be up against, a rising tide of myopic religious bigotry against immortalism. Bill Muehlenberg's Reviews: [note double quotes indicate a quotation taken from the book being reviewed] [begin quoted material] Cutting-Edge Bioethics: A Christian Exploration of Technologies and Trends (Horizon in Bioethics Series Book) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0802849598/cm_aya_asin.title/102-7188962-3882509?v=glance&s=books "Indeed, many of the authors in this book remind us that the staggering new advances in science and technology are radically shifting our understanding of what it is to be a human. Humanity and personhood are under serious threat, with one author going so far as to suggest that "mortal human beings are rapidly becoming an endangered species"." Bioengagement: Making a Christian Difference Through Bioethics Today (Horizons in Bioethics Series) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0802847935/cm_aya_asin.title/102-7188962-3882509?v=glance&s=books "Bio-ethics is a new and burgeoning field, effecting all of us. Issues like human cloning, genetic engineering, assisted reproductive technologies, genetically modified foods, and embryo research are just some of the contentious areas which are making an impact on so many of us. Therefore it is important that those with religious convictions bring their concerns to bear on the new and weighty issues being debated. Too often such debates have been left to the scientists, medical professionals, politicians and even the corporations to sort through. And often these folk bring to bear a secular utilitarian worldview on such issues. But these important matters should not be left for our politicians and scientists to decide upon. People with a religious worldview very much need to raise their voices as well." ""It is in bioethics, that point of intersection of the professions, the academy, and public policy, in which the dignity of the human being is constantly open to re-definition, and in which most of the best in our inheritance - medicine, science, the professional idea - is coming under withering fire from those whose values are radically distinct from the Judeo-Christian tradition. Our failure at the start of the new millennium to engage the culture in a degree which mirrors the size of our churches is distressing. Our failure in this realm of bioethics is particularly discouraging, since it is here that the assumptions of post-Christians are shaping their idea of what it is to be one of us. Conversely, our opportunity to make a difference at this point is immense."" Genetic Turning Points: The Ethics of Human Genetic Intervention (Critical Issues in Bioethics Series) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0802849202/cm_aya_asin.title/102-7188962-3882509?v=glance&s=books\ "Writing from a Christian perspective, Peterson is able to discuss in detail the intricacies of genetic engineering without bogging the reader down in an overly technical fashion. He examines a number of the controversial issues: genetic testing, genetic screening, genetic surgery, genetic patents, genetic drugs, and genetic manipulation. While acknowledging the tremendous potential for good that the new genetic frontiers can offer, he is also keenly aware of the potential dangers and pitfalls" "While both components are nicely wedded in this volume, his conclusions on some matters - such as aspects of IVF - may not necessarily please everyone. And on some issues - for example, when does human life begin? - he carefully lays out the options without fully committing himself" ""Genetics does not so much make us automatically better as it can make us more capable. Genetic intervention, like many technologies, frees us from some constraints and increases our abilities and choices. Pursued as an end in itself it is at best a distraction, and when all-consuming, idolatry. If all we manage to do is relieve physical suffering and to control our physical world in the finest degree, our potential will be wasted."" As you can see not only is Muehlenberg rabidly anti transhuman tech but so also seem to be these books aimed at a Christian and the religious minded audience. No doubt they will make the rounds and become widely read and so I must put forth the question, in these circles, who speaks for us? If I could write to this man I would hasten to ask, "Why must the Christians butt their noses into this?". If they believe they will end up in heaven and that their god is soon to return why bother messing things up for everyone else? It's like the same with abortion, if one believes it to be wrong, THEN DON'T DO IT! Teach your children to believe as you do and stop being the moral taskmaster for your neighbor! Oh, but they will surely counter, "but who speaks for the unborn?". To which I say, if their god is so great then surely he does and surely that aborted 'alleged person' just got a free ticket to heaven without chance of screwing it up! What is it that they fear about the new life extending tech, not being able to die and thereby reach heaven unless accomplished via suicide, or is it the possibility that the churches will empty when people no longer fear death? If so then they don't understand religion or the religious. They must think human science is stronger than their god. [end quoted material] Hiding from potential enemies of immortalism wont work. As can be seen above vastly dangerous to us opinions are already forming. Staying silent and unnoticed is only inviting the worst, to be steam rolled over without a whimper in our favor. While we still have a voice we need to tell how great or dream is for everyone so that those that will listen get a chance to hear it before either we are permanently silenced or the opportunity to achieve the dream is forever lost. James -- Member: Cryonics Institute of Michigan http://www.cryonics.org The Immortalist Society http://www.cryonics.org/info.html The Society for Venturism http://www.venturist.org Immortality Institute http://www.imminst.org MY WEBSITE: http://www.davidpascal.com/swayze/ Signature Memetic Virus--The worst enemy of those who now or will need medical care is the uninformed politician or moral fanatic who proscribe what doctors are allowed to prescribe and research, with the consent of their patients. Those who understand this are strongly encouraged to modify this to fit their personality, and add this to their signature file, and organize to recover our freedom from Big Brother. For those who wait until they are sick, it will be too late. Those who suffer from diseases which might have been cured by advanced medical research or schedule 1 drugs banned by Big Brother, have the right to hold accountable those who sat on their hands or worse, deferred their responsibility for personal and humanity's survival to unseen mystical agents, while they remained ill and dying. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=22839