X-Message-Number: 22852
From: "Paul Pagnato" <>
References: <>
Subject: Re: James 22843 & Randy 22844
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 17:02:29 -0800

Re: James, 22843 & Randy 22844

When researching for countries to legalize Cryonics it is imperative that they 
are world powers of the future, or the Judeo/Christians will still have the 
power to control us.


  Message #22843
  Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 08:43:13 EST
  Subject: Location of cryogenic facility

  After noting the terrible and, yes stupid, controversy about a cryogenic 

  physical plant, in either Russia or the US, it occurred to me that there is a
  stable, libertarian government entrenched in the Dominican Republic.  The area
  enjoyed increasing stability lately with a boon in tourism and ex-pats from 
  Europe and the US.  It is a "hands-off" government.  The country is easily 

  accessable from both Europe and the US and geologically stable.  This may be a
    plausible location to consider.
  James Hughes, MD

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  Message #22844
  From: randy <>
  Subject: Re: which country will be first to legalize cryonics?
  Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 09:05:32 -0600
  References: <>

  On 15 Nov 2003 10:00:01 -0000, you wrote
  >Message #22838
  >Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:00:34 -0800 (PST)
  >From: Randall Burns <>
  >Subject: Russia and Cryonics
  >I personally think that exploring how it might be
  >possible to lobby in Russia would be a good idea. I
  >also suspect that some countries like Japan and Korea
  >would be amenable here. 
  >If cryonicists could just get 3-5 countries to
  >_firmly_ legalize cryonics, this would be a big step

  I am thinking that if any country would be able to legalize cryonics,
  it would be one of the northwestern European countries, such as
  Switzerland, Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, etc.  THey seem to have a
  more pragmatic, non-religious approach to life.  For example, polls
  show that far fewer citizens of those countries have a belief in a god
  or afterlife (I think the figure there is maybe 30-40% or so, as
  opposed to 60-70% here in the USA).  

  Also, Switzerland and Netherlands have, I believe,  practically
  decriminalized euthanasia.

  You can see the European pragmatism in their choice of government:
  Here in America, we seem to have a sort of "lottery culture", where we
  all seem to think we will be rich some day if we just put our heads
  down like sheep and work as hard as possible.  The Europeans seem to
  acknowledge that only a minority will become rich, and so they have a
  far more reliable social safety net and welfare state, with higher

  We Americans are in many ways more obedient and sheeplike, although we
  would deny it of course.    But just look at the rates of voluntary
  voting in America: we have maybe 30% of eligible citizens who bother
  to vote for either Republicrat Tweedledum or Republicrat Tweedledee.
  In some countries of NW Europe, however, voluntary voter participation
  rates are much higher, e.g., 90% or over!

  Anyway, it just seems to me that compared to NW Europeans, many of us
  Americans have our heads in the clouds, what with our afterlife
  religion, our  credit card debt, our I'll-be-rich-someday lottery
  culture, our who-cares-who-is-voted-president politics, etc. 

  As far as I am concerned, cryonics is nothing if not a pragmatic
  choice trying to make the best of a bad situation.  

  So, why is cryonics only practiced in America (and somewhat in
  England and Australia)?  I dunno.....but along with Russia, I look to
  NW Europe to be the first to officially recognize cryonics as
  something worthwhile. America in general actually holds cryonics in
  disdain, as we have seen with the Ted Williams affair.

  >I tend to agree, the political situation in the US is
  >such that there is a good chance the religious right
  >will at some point ban cryonics in the US. Now, the
  >other option here to start exploring allies in the
  >Democratic party. Dennis Kucinich for example is
  >trying to figure out how to appeal to libertarian
  >voters(for example he had  a recent positive article
  >about John Gilmore on his blog).

  Yeah, Kucinich is THE MAN!

  He is the only presidential candidate who has come out in support of
  proportional representation, which would give us the tool we need to
  remake American political structure.  Also, he has a pln for
  implementinguniversal health care, which is of course what gives NW
  Europeans their longer life spans (they live about 3 years longer on
  average than Americans).

  But I have no idea how he feels about cryonics. Maybe I could email
  him--I am involved in his campaign as a volunteer here in Houston.....



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