X-Message-Number: 22869
From: "John de Rivaz" <>
References: <>

Subject: Re: cryonics making strange bedfellows? Dangerous, burn before reading.
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 00:21:01 -0000

Whilst I can sympathise with the idea of armed resistance to biodeathist
murderers, if such a thing ever did happen the cryonics movement could never
survive it. It would be stamped out Waco style.

What we do have to do, and can do, is to keep careful records of the work we
have tried to do to make cryopreservation available, and transmit to the
future details of that, together with personal and family details of those
"bioethicist" murderers who oppose it. Maybe just getting letters and
articles published in the press (and therefore stored in libraries) is
enough, but if all cryonics facilities are closed down as some people fear,
we could also devote energies to storing this information in time capsules.

Whether anyone is cryopreserved or not, in the future people will know
whether it would have worked or not as a result of general scientific
advance. Those that oppose it need to know that if it would have worked,
their descendants should and probably will have a rough time as being the
descendants of deliberate mass murderers. I know it isn't their personal
fault, but they will be victims of a war that started in the early 21st

What would we think today if a few thousand people from the 19th century had
been denied some similar enterprise which we today knew was practicable.
What would we think of the descendants of their killers?

The biodeathists want to take away our attempt at indefinite lifespan. We
can fight fire with fire, if we can degrade their conventional attempt at
immortality by having future generations of offspring. According to a TV
programme I have seen, Adolf Hitler's relations took a deliberate decision
not to have children less they produce another version of the hated dictator
some time in the future. I don't know about Dr Merngele, but I would not be
surprised if the same applied to his relations.

I would imagine that the descendants of the biodeathist murders could easily
take a similar view of ancestors who used the power of authority to deny a
few thousand people the chance of the indefinite lifespan that they would be
enjoying if this scenario ever worked out. With such genes, what terrible
decisions could their descendants use the power of authority to force upon
humanity in the future?

[I know that people do not in any way live on in their offspring, but most
biodeathist murderers probably think they do, and that is enough. I have no
objection to bioethicists discussing their views, but once they start
legislating, then they become biodeathist murderers.]

Sincerely, John de Rivaz:  http://John.deRivaz.com for websites including
Cryonics Europe, Longevity Report, The Venturists, Porthtowan, Alec Harley
Reeves - inventor, Arthur Bowker - potter, de Rivaz genealogy,  Nomad .. and

> Message #22849
> From: 
> Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 11:55:07 EST
> When the bioethicists, (AKA "biodeathisists) disagree with me/us on such a
> foundational principle as "a long and healthy life is a good thing to be
> aggressively and rationally", we have a problem.
> And a larger problem if these idiots foist their neo-luddite agendas by
> and gunpoint at us.  While it is probably too early to call for this, and
> must be circumspect for now, armed insurection against such "neo-nazis"
may be
> necessary.

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