X-Message-Number: 22880
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:33:33 -0800
From: James Swayze <>
Subject: Re: absolute cures and the free market -- reply to Aschwin
References: <>

CryoNet wrote:

>CryoNet - Tue 18 Nov 2003
>    #22857: Re: absolute cures and the free market [Aschwin de Wolf]
>    #22858: Re: CryoNet  #22856 [Paul Pagnato]
>    #22859: Responses to Swayze, Pizer [Charles Platt]
>    #22860: Re:responses to  CryoNet #22847 - #22856 [randy]
>    #22861: Max More on Democracy and Transhumanism [Aschwin de Wolf]
>    #22862: Re: cryonics news video [Scott Badger]

>    #22863: Re: cryonics making strange bedfellows? Dangerous, burn before 
reading. [Scott Badger]
>    #22864: lowlife newspaper columnist takes shot at cryonics [randy]
>    #22865: Russia or India and Half-Baked Discussion [cryofan andrew]
>    #22866: Half Baked??? [THnsn8]
>    #22867: Research in Russia [cryofan andrew]
>    #22868: China as a cryonics-friendly venue [Jeff Davis]

>    #22869: Re: cryonics making strange bedfellows? Dangerous, burn before 
reading.  [John de Rivaz]
>    #22870: TransVision 2004: Call for Proposals [George Dvorsky]
>    #22871: Re: Live Free or Die [RAMole]
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>Message #22857
>From: "Aschwin de Wolf" <>
>References: <>
>Subject: Re: absolute cures and the free market
>Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:24:31 -0500
>>Has anyone really 
>>considered the free market implications on health care as absolute cures 
>>for diseases are considered? Just on supply and demand and free market 
>>basis what is the incentive for a company to cure themselves out of a 

>This is not how the free market operates in real life. You should not only look
at established companies but also *potential* companies. Even if it were true 
that existing companies would be hesitant to develop and sell "absolute cures" 
(which I doubt)  another company would step in and reap these (enormous) 
Ah thanks for clearing this up for me. Hmmm, but then again I'm reminded 
of Tucker and his bid to introduce a highly inovative automobile that 
threatened the established companies that had political and banking 
power so great they crushed him. This is free market in "Real Life" 
also. I'm also reminded of the fact this country had much more of a 
unfettered more free of regulation free market econnomy in the 19th 
century. We have many of the laws, unions and regulations that we have 
today to for precisely the purpose of reigning in the excesses of the, 
so called, "Robber Baron" super capitalists of that era. They had the 
power to ruin lives and often did even directly. I'm reminded of the 
Pinerton's gunning down Carnegie steel plant strikers.

Don't get me wrong, I am a capitalist, I'm just also a pragmatist. One 
might modify Murphy's law a little from 'whatever can go wrong will' to 
'whatever excesses/evils unbridled greed can cause will'. I'm thinking 
of Enron as our modern day Robber Barons. I favor a mostly free market, 
as free as can be but with some common sense as regards letting any old 
thing happen that large or even small companies would get up to in their 
short term profit mind set. If our society was more like the Japanese, 
where their corporations try to consider a 250 year outlook rather than 
just next quarter's profits and losses and dividends to investors, the 
we'd be much better off and things like Enron wouldn't occur. They'd 
have cared that they could not get away with their shinanigans forever 
and cared that they leave something for the company to work with in 
future for their successors and they workers and investors, often one 
and the same. Instead they raped and pillaged and California is now 
really paying for it. The 9 billion California is in need of is 
coincidentally in the pockets of Enron crooks.

>You should be more concerned about government.
Hopefully government will soon recognize the benefits of having a 
perpetually youthful population that continues to produce rather than 
slowly degenerate draining medical care coffers.

As to a totally Libertarian free market even anarcho laisse' fare non 
government government. I look forward to the day that is possible. I 
just don't think it is with current human nature and especially with the 
current dangers. By this I mean I'm trying to figure out how a no 
taxation government that only, As Ayn Rand said, covers policing, 
military protection from outside harm and judicial protection of human 
and individual property rights, is supposed to afford 2 billion dollar 
stealth bombers and all the rest our high tech day and age require. I 
look for anarcho self rule to happen when/if we all get augmented 
mentally and more precisely interconnected so that there's no need for 
representative government, government is truly huge in the respect that 
it truly is finally government "of the people, by the people and for the 
people" as in we each are all the government and no government at the 
same time. With interconnectedness and a better equal education level 
and especially increased intelligence and logic capability, while there 
will be increased diversity by setting people free to achieve any goal 
they like, diverseness as to how we run things, I believe, will see more 

Just my humble opinion, I hope I'm still allowed to have one.


Cryonics Institute of Michigan 	http://www.cryonics.org
The Immortalist Society 	http://www.cryonics.org/info.html
The Society for Venturism 	http://www.venturist.org
Immortality Institute 		http://www.imminst.org

MY WEBSITE: http://www.davidpascal.com/swayze/

Signature Memetic Virus--The worst enemy of those who now or will need medical 
care is the uninformed politician or moral fanatic who proscribe what doctors 
are allowed to prescribe and research, with the consent of their patients. Those
who understand this are strongly encouraged to modify this to fit their 
personality, and add this to their signature file, and organize to recover our 
freedom from Big Brother. For those who wait until they are sick, it will be too
late. Those who suffer from diseases which might have been cured by advanced 
medical research or schedule 1 drugs banned by Big Brother, have the right to 
hold accountable those who sat on their hands or worse, deferred their 
responsibility for personal and humanity's survival to unseen mystical agents, 
while they remained ill and dying.

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