X-Message-Number: 22880 Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:33:33 -0800 From: James Swayze <> Subject: Re: absolute cures and the free market -- reply to Aschwin References: <> CryoNet wrote: >CryoNet - Tue 18 Nov 2003 > > #22857: Re: absolute cures and the free market [Aschwin de Wolf] > #22858: Re: CryoNet #22856 [Paul Pagnato] > #22859: Responses to Swayze, Pizer [Charles Platt] > #22860: Re:responses to CryoNet #22847 - #22856 [randy] > #22861: Max More on Democracy and Transhumanism [Aschwin de Wolf] > #22862: Re: cryonics news video [Scott Badger] > #22863: Re: cryonics making strange bedfellows? Dangerous, burn before reading. [Scott Badger] > #22864: lowlife newspaper columnist takes shot at cryonics [randy] > #22865: Russia or India and Half-Baked Discussion [cryofan andrew] > #22866: Half Baked??? [THnsn8] > #22867: Research in Russia [cryofan andrew] > #22868: China as a cryonics-friendly venue [Jeff Davis] > #22869: Re: cryonics making strange bedfellows? Dangerous, burn before reading. [John de Rivaz] > #22870: TransVision 2004: Call for Proposals [George Dvorsky] > #22871: Re: Live Free or Die [RAMole] > >Administrivia > >To subscribe to CryoNet, send email to: > >with the subject line (not message _body_): > subscribe >To unsubscribe, use the subject line: > unsubscribe > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message #22857 >From: "Aschwin de Wolf" <> >References: <> >Subject: Re: absolute cures and the free market >Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:24:31 -0500 > > > >>Has anyone really >>considered the free market implications on health care as absolute cures >>for diseases are considered? Just on supply and demand and free market >>basis what is the incentive for a company to cure themselves out of a >>market? >> >> > > >This is not how the free market operates in real life. You should not only look at established companies but also *potential* companies. Even if it were true that existing companies would be hesitant to develop and sell "absolute cures" (which I doubt) another company would step in and reap these (enormous) profits. > Ah thanks for clearing this up for me. Hmmm, but then again I'm reminded of Tucker and his bid to introduce a highly inovative automobile that threatened the established companies that had political and banking power so great they crushed him. This is free market in "Real Life" also. I'm also reminded of the fact this country had much more of a unfettered more free of regulation free market econnomy in the 19th century. We have many of the laws, unions and regulations that we have today to for precisely the purpose of reigning in the excesses of the, so called, "Robber Baron" super capitalists of that era. They had the power to ruin lives and often did even directly. I'm reminded of the Pinerton's gunning down Carnegie steel plant strikers. Don't get me wrong, I am a capitalist, I'm just also a pragmatist. One might modify Murphy's law a little from 'whatever can go wrong will' to 'whatever excesses/evils unbridled greed can cause will'. I'm thinking of Enron as our modern day Robber Barons. I favor a mostly free market, as free as can be but with some common sense as regards letting any old thing happen that large or even small companies would get up to in their short term profit mind set. If our society was more like the Japanese, where their corporations try to consider a 250 year outlook rather than just next quarter's profits and losses and dividends to investors, the we'd be much better off and things like Enron wouldn't occur. They'd have cared that they could not get away with their shinanigans forever and cared that they leave something for the company to work with in future for their successors and they workers and investors, often one and the same. Instead they raped and pillaged and California is now really paying for it. The 9 billion California is in need of is coincidentally in the pockets of Enron crooks. > >You should be more concerned about government. > Hopefully government will soon recognize the benefits of having a perpetually youthful population that continues to produce rather than slowly degenerate draining medical care coffers. As to a totally Libertarian free market even anarcho laisse' fare non government government. I look forward to the day that is possible. I just don't think it is with current human nature and especially with the current dangers. By this I mean I'm trying to figure out how a no taxation government that only, As Ayn Rand said, covers policing, military protection from outside harm and judicial protection of human and individual property rights, is supposed to afford 2 billion dollar stealth bombers and all the rest our high tech day and age require. I look for anarcho self rule to happen when/if we all get augmented mentally and more precisely interconnected so that there's no need for representative government, government is truly huge in the respect that it truly is finally government "of the people, by the people and for the people" as in we each are all the government and no government at the same time. With interconnectedness and a better equal education level and especially increased intelligence and logic capability, while there will be increased diversity by setting people free to achieve any goal they like, diverseness as to how we run things, I believe, will see more consensus. Just my humble opinion, I hope I'm still allowed to have one. James -- Member: Cryonics Institute of Michigan http://www.cryonics.org The Immortalist Society http://www.cryonics.org/info.html The Society for Venturism http://www.venturist.org Immortality Institute http://www.imminst.org MY WEBSITE: http://www.davidpascal.com/swayze/ Signature Memetic Virus--The worst enemy of those who now or will need medical care is the uninformed politician or moral fanatic who proscribe what doctors are allowed to prescribe and research, with the consent of their patients. Those who understand this are strongly encouraged to modify this to fit their personality, and add this to their signature file, and organize to recover our freedom from Big Brother. For those who wait until they are sick, it will be too late. Those who suffer from diseases which might have been cured by advanced medical research or schedule 1 drugs banned by Big Brother, have the right to hold accountable those who sat on their hands or worse, deferred their responsibility for personal and humanity's survival to unseen mystical agents, while they remained ill and dying. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=22880