X-Message-Number: 22955 From: "John de Rivaz" <> References: <003701c3b531$f1f9a2c0$> Subject: Re: [Venturists] So you don't want to die...... Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 17:58:02 -0000 > Donate as much as you can afford and as often as you can afford to. > Contribute as if your life depended on it. Although there is obvious logic here, Chrissie and I are concerned that this message gives the idea that if someone joins the cryonics movement, the movement will be a constant sink of his funds, just like any other cult. We think some words of caution are not out of place. Many people have already degraded their standard of living in order to pay their life insurance premiums. I know cryonics isn't a cult, and presumably most people who have read these lists for some years know that. But there are newcomers to these lists all the time -- educating newcomers is one of their major functions. We don't want to drive them off. Cryonics could be seen as just another set of organisations howling for money alongside small charities for unheard of endangered species right up to huge organisations that sincerely believe that they can solve world hunger if only they were given enough funds. We also know that there is no guarantee that cryonics will work, and a balance needs to be obtained - this could be the only life you get. The same, of course, applies to the promises made by some religions or political parties demanding sacrifices for future generations, such as communism. Many couples have only one partner interested in cryonics. If cryonics is *seen as* the reason (it doesn't have to *be* the reason) they never go on holiday, have new things or experience the extravagances of life, the pro-death partner is likely to feel even more hostile. I don't know what the answer is, but I don't think the Bob Geldoff school of fundraising is going to help much. If it wasn't for bequests, the cryonics organisations would be in a lot less strong a position than they are now. Maybe it is bequests, and spin-off organisations like Bio Time Inc. that can be floated on public markets, that should be the main sources of funding. Or maybe something completely new. There are enough bright people on these lists to make constructive suggestions that do not involve "shaking the tin." I do know that the legal advisors of cryonics organisations are not keen on alternative sources of income. They are used to putting people in positions where large sums of money can be demanded, and the client has no option but to pay. Therefore strongly worded "begging letters" seem an obvious and only course of action to them - they are legally safer than running another business. But the degree of force is less obvious with cryonics compared to people threatened with litigation. People decades away from the average age of death can say "That's enough" and transfer their insurance to benefit a relative (or stop paying the premiums) and leave the movement. Admittedly they will be annihilated as a result and they will lose the use of every cent they have when this happens. But losing them has not helped the movement. It is demoralising for all of us when someone leaves, especially if they have been with the movement for a long time (as noted in other recent messages). It is also demoralising for those who have worked educating people about cryonics to the extent that they sign up, having been told that it isn't really that expensive. -- Sincerely, John de Rivaz: http://John.deRivaz.com for websites including Cryonics Europe, Longevity Report, The Venturists, Porthtowan, Alec Harley Reeves - inventor, Arthur Bowker - potter, de Rivaz genealogy, Nomad .. and more Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=22955