X-Message-Number: 23065
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 14:33:08 EST
Subject: Re: CryoNet #23038 - #23048

Mike Perry does exactly what I suggest when he links concerns about our own 
fragility to these other political and social storms that rage about us.  I 
think many of us long hoped  that a big name celebrity going publicly into 

cryonic suspension would give a big boost to the movement and from a lot of 
TW was about as big as you could get, a sports and hence popular culture icon 
of the first magnitude.  Obviously, the results have been mixed.  We are above 
the public radar screen as never before [featured in two mock commercials on 
Saturday Night LIve, the latest last Saturday] That has to be considered 
progress of a sort and an inevitable forward step toward wider acceptance and 

ultimately long term viability.  But it has come at a great cost as well because
has aroused the hostility that almost always attends major new changes in the 
way humanity deals with fundamental issues.  At the moment our still-fragile 
institutions are under threat, at least in Florida and Michigan and probably 
elsewhere, and, although I can't prove it, my suspicion is that the threat 
emanates directly of indirectly from the TW affair.
    Thus it seems that we need to be concerned for our very survival 

institutionally at the same time as we want to expand our memberships to 
increase our 
power and long term viability.  If survival depends on maintaining a very low 
profile and expansion requires a higher public profile, then we are stuck in a 
conundrum.  Libertarianism in its purest form would be good for us because it 
implies a live-and-let live philosophy: you can do whatever you want as long 
as it doesn't impinge on my freedom to do whatever I want.  To some extent the 
US is a libertarian country and that is probably why we cryonauts are by far 
the strongest and most viable here in the US.  However, pure libertarians are 
themselves a fringe minority and the extremists on both the left and the right 
are not at all libertarian.  In fact the dominance of either in political 
life represents a serious threat to us.  The left would regulate us out of 
existence because of their exaggerated fears of environmental degradation and 

population growth as well as their muddled view of and ambivalence about 
progress.  The right, seemingly coming from an opposite direction, would 
regulate if not stop altogether advances in stem cell research, 

biologically-oriented nanotechnology, cloning, and so forth, along with a 
woman's right to chose. 
 Their credentials as "libertarians" are hopelessly suspect, however much 

they wail about taxes.  They really want us to be a "Christian Nation," a 
guided by religious principles which they think or imagine are embodied in 
the Constitution.  The right is on top right now as perhaps never before, 

certainly in our lifetimes.  They control the White House, both houses of 
and increasingly the courts.  After the next presidential election they will 
probably change the complexion of the Supreme Court, itself. In theory, this 
might be OK if they were really "strict constructionists" as many on the right 
would like to say, but the court conservatives have proven over and over again 
that they will willingly interpret the constitution in ways to regulate 

anything they feel like regulating to suit their personal beliefs and 
    So what do we do or where should we stand as cryonicists?  I think we are 
way too small a group to get even smaller by excluding anyone from our 

numbers who happens to be of a particular religion or political party or 

preference of any kind, however much we as individuals find thes "other" groups
discomforting or wrong-headed.  To the extent that we should be champining any 
ideology or political/religious preference beyond our cryonic-connected 
beliefs I think it should be to defend the live-and-let-live ideal which is 

incorporated in the first ten amendments to the constitution and is implied in 
libertarianism as well.  The American Civil Liberties Union might be a 

candidate for alliance for some of us because they single-mindedly support 
rights, including, for example the rights of neo-Nazis and KluKlux Clanners to 
assemble and march and publcly parade their views so noxious to the majority. 
 Sorry folks, our views are noxious to the majority, too, probably the vast 
majority, and so even though the ACLU has been disparaged by Bush, sr and 

various other on the right, it may be the ACLU lawyers who will save us in the 
What say you all? 
    Another thought: some time or other, and maybe sooner than later, the 
social scientists among us should take a hard look at the TW affair and its 

consequences within the movement, among its enemies and in the wider culture.  
should be armed with as much accurate information about this earth-shaking 

phenomenon as we can to turn it to our ultimate advantage, whether this means 
expansion efforts, reframing the message, making better legal preparations, or 
maybe, even [I hope not] going underground or off-shore to secure our futures.
Ron Havelock, CI member, and President (2003-04), Life Extension Society (a 

cryonic suspension interest and support group centered in the general region of
Washington, D.C.) 

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