X-Message-Number: 23100
From: 
Subject: Message # 23089 (Mike Perry)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 09:24:13 +0000


In your opinion the U.S. has "soft core" Libertarianism. I agree...VERY, VERY 
soft core! It does "allow" capitalism. But so does 

some communist countries. It also "allows" one to retain some profits. I submit 
capitalism and retaining all of one's profits 
should be a right...not something the government permits and controls.


Again you use the term "radical" Libertarianism. I don't understand what is 
radical about the ideas outlined by the Libertarian 

National Committee. I also fail to see how a Libertarian government would decay 
into anarchy. It would still contain a defense 

department, a supreme court, probably the C.I.A. and on a local level we would 
still have the criminal justice system. To 

descend into anarchy would require an armed revolt by a large sector of the 
population. That would be a bloody event 

indeed! I will concede that could happen under any system including the present 
one, so I fail to see that as a reasonable 
argument against Libertarianism


You seem to defend the present system by pointing out that it prevented Josef 
Stalin from annexing the U.S. That is the 

primary (if not only) function of the federal government. Under the libertarians
that would remain the primary function. Again, 

I fail to see that as a reasonable argument against the Libertarian party 
assuming control over the federal government.


You make reference to the "natural way" of people. I tend to agree with you on 
this point. Most people I know if ask would 

agree that government should control building decisions, zoning, should provide 
welfare (just make it "fair"), should require 

people to attach metal plates to their vehicles and pay extortion before driving
on roads, should build and operate schools, 

roads, fight a war on drugs and prostitution, should provide housing for the 
poor. I could go on and on. The fact that there 

are several thousand registered libertarians in the U.S. and in other countries,
that there exist in Washington the Cato 

institute and a large volume of libertarian literature exist by several 
different authors should suggest that the "natural way" 
might not be universal.


You say things might not work the way libertarians imagine. This cannot be 
proved but if Thomas Jefferson, etal were 

returned to life and introduced to our current government, they would probably 
feel that something went wrong. It could be 

said that government the way they imagined "didn't work" and I would strongly 
agree! It was because people with the 

"natural way" you mentioned learned that they had the power to live off other 
people's earnings.


It is true that Socialism doesn't jibe with human nature, but the system 
survived in the U.S.S.R. for 70 years and still survives 

to a greater or lesser degree in most countries. Does the fact that it still 
exist mean that Socialism "works"? 


The Federal Government is in your life from the time you lie down on a 
government approved mattress to the time you 

awake and take a shit on a government mandated toilet. The fact that you can 
send these messages without censorship 

means nothing. You should listen to talk radio from time to time and learn what 
the feds. have tried. So far they have been 

defeated but they will NEVER stop trying! They would like nothing better than to
monitor everyone's e-mail and the "Patriot 

Act" i.e. the Orwellian Act has just made that goal a lot easier!! You say if 
Congress ignores the constitution why people 

and/or the Libertarian party are not filing lawsuits? Lawsuits have been 
filed...to defend the first and second amendments. 

Anytime an attack is made on the first amendment the media and lawyers react 
with a vengeance. That is why that 

amendment is pretty much intact. Any time an attack is made on the second 
amendment the N.R.A., and almost no one else 

reacts. The reaction also is not as visceral as the reaction to the first 
amendment. That is why we have severe limitations on 

"the right to keep and bear arms" and be assured those limitations are going to 
grow in number. As far as the rest of the 

constitution, most people have not even read it or give a damn what the 
Libertarian party says about it. There is no one 

willing to sue the Feds. over social security, medicare, medicade, H.U.D., dept.
of education, D.E.A., A,T.F., F.B.I., I could go 

on and on. Apparently no one with large sums of money gives a damn about any 
part of the constitution except the first and 

second amendments. If I had Bill Gates money I would like to think that I would 
take a shot at it!


You say if coercion was eliminated we would have anarchy. A Libertarian 
government would not completely eliminate coercion. 

It would use severe coercion against foreign aggressors and locals when an 
attempt to violate someone's personal freedom 
occurred!


I would like to see a national L.P. revolution, you would not...we disagree. 
Have you heard of the Free State Project? If it 

succeeds in becoming a reality, we will see the Libertarian experiment tried. 
Best wishes, I will see you Monday Dec. 12th,
Jerry

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