X-Message-Number: 23220 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 10:57:43 -0800 From: James Swayze <> Subject: Global cookery kookery References: <> >Message #23217 >Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 13:49:00 +0800 (CST) >From: =?big5?q?kurt2100kimo?= <> >Subject: Climate > >Hello, > >I have something to tell you all, > >Through out most of its history, the normal >temperature of the Earth is 22 degrees C. Today, it is >12 deg C. We have been in an ice age for the past 10 >million years. > >Check out the website www.scotese.com/climate.htm and >you'll see what I mean. > >My point is that if global warming leads to a tropic >Earth, it just means that the Earth's climate is >returning to "normal" as defined through out most of >geological history. You will note on the animated map, >that "warm weather" places included almost the entire >planet. > >Since I like warm climates, this suits me just fine. > >Start cranking up those CO2 generators. > >Kurt > Be careful what you wish for, you may get the opposite of what you think. At first glance his, your conclusions, seem to me to be bad science at best. There are several things that come immediately to mind that make for serious problems trying to equate anything about the far remote past climate with today's. First on this list would be the length day. If correctly recalled I believe it was far shorter than 24 hours in the past, more like 18 or fewer even. This would mean whatever plants did exist, not all of them the same as today -- far from it -- and this alone means there may be issues about rates of conversion that may be species specific, would have less sunshine for converting CO2 to O2 in a given day, making the climate then far warmer than capable of today. Secondly, there is the proximity of the moon to the Earth. It was far closer in the past and is escaping us all the time. People widely know of the ocean tides but not of tidal forces on the land. Yes, the Earth's crust falls and rises several inches with the moon's orbit around us. This has to have effect upon tectonic forces and so I'd have to ask just how much more there might have been with the moon being much closer and the forces greater? Could it mean more volcanic activity, and due to this more CO2 and other greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, even the occasional cooling period for dust occlusion of the sun? Here again we can't reproduce any of this for today. My point is that in trying to equate our climate with one so far removed and with artifacts that cannot be the same ever again it is pointless to use it as a preferable model. What matters to us now is the immediate future and that does not bode well for unrestrained human caused CO2 and other greenhouse emissions and what they might effect. And it's not warming to worry about, nay it is massive and rapid cooling. I've said here before, here is the study http://www.essc.psu.edu/~bjhaupt/papers/guest.97/guest-sh.html#introduction [see below a list], if one fancies themselves science savvy then do check this out and point out for yourself and for me where they are wrong. If they are not wrong than continuing to haphazardly warm the planet may plunge it into the next ice age. This happens quite logically from glacial melt water diluting the global thermohaline conveyor that by convection causes such things as the gulf stream to warm the higher latitudes by bringing southern warm water northward. This happens because salty water is heavier and falls in the north causing a vacuum effect to pull warmer water in after it. The net effect of this happening in myriad places all over the world makes for a delicately balanced global conveyor of water currents that keep this planet more or less evenly temperate. Make this saline water less saline by melting millions of tons of fresh water glaciers and do so too quickly for the system to adjust slowly and you are asking for trouble. Look far and wide before leaping, especially when ideology may be involved. For the lay person, http://www.enviroliteracy.org/article.php/545.html For the seriously science savvy, http://www.essc.psu.edu/~bjhaupt/papers/guest.97/guest-sh.html#modeling_of_the_global%20_conveyor For the student, http://topex-www.jpl.nasa.gov/education/tutorial2.html http://www.ocean.fsu.edu/~www/Courses/sp00H1001/aarguez/AnthonyApaper.html From google, http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=global+conveyor&spell=1 James -- Member: Cryonics Institute of Michigan http://www.cryonics.org The Immortalist Society http://www.cryonics.org/info.html The Society for Venturism http://www.venturist.org Immortality Institute http://www.imminst.org MY WEBSITE: http://www.davidpascal.com/swayze/ Signature Memetic Virus--The worst enemy of those who now or will need medical care is the uninformed politician or moral fanatic who proscribe what doctors are allowed to prescribe and research, with the consent of their patients. Those who understand this are strongly encouraged to modify this to fit their personality, and add this to their signature file, and organize to recover our freedom from Big Brother. For those who wait until they are sick, it will be too late. Those who suffer from diseases which might have been cured by advanced medical research or schedule 1 drugs banned by Big Brother, have the right to hold accountable those who sat on their hands or worse, deferred their responsibility for personal and humanity's survival to unseen mystical agents, while they remained ill and dying. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=23220