X-Message-Number: 2346
Date: 15 Jul 93 07:11:27 EDT
From: Mike Darwin <>
Subject: CRYONICS Reply to Tanya's CRYOMSG #2344
From: Mike Darwin
To: All
Date: 14 July, 1993
Re: Response to Tanya Jones msg #2344
1) I have spoken with both Steve Bridge and Hugh Hixon about by my
invitation to come and discuss the suspension. I recall having this
conversation with Steve Bridge...or perhaps Hugh. However, neither of
them recall it. I do NOT think they are lying. I know I am not.
Therefore, I will (personally) chalk this up to a failure of
communication. Steve B. has told me that he feels there was no slur
intended. I never said I spoke with Tanya about this. My apologies if I
am the one at fault here. And by the way the invitation still stands.
2) My perspective about the response to cardiac arrest came from my
conversations with Steve Bridge. I spoke with Steve Bridge this evening
and he confirmed that my comments re his comments are representative.
Steve then went on to say that he (Steve) and Tanya have "something of a
difference of opinion" about how things went during initial (post cardiac
arrest stabilization of the patient). Tanya is entitled to her opinion.
All I am saying is that the person who was there who has also been a
trained EMT differs.
3) I asked Hugh Hixon if he was able to do blood gases and he said
no. Since we had previously discussed the problems with the gas machine,
I assumed that was the reason why. If that is incorrect, I stand
corrected. I suggest you get a user friendly blood gas machine.
4) I stand by my remarks that extracorporeal circulation should not
start (even on test basis) without the tubing anchored. I have spoken
with my perfusionist on this and he concurs.
5) I was told that there was substantial loss of circulating volume
by two individuals. If this not correct, I stand corrected. What would
help here would be to know a) what was the recircultating volume, and b)
how much was lost.
6) Tanya is incorrect if she thinks I am advocating Harvey Cushing's
alleged treatment of residents or that I treat those I work with in that
manner. This was NOT what I said. However, having said that, I would be
the first to say that if everything negative said about Cushing is true,
it would still be worth it. The man basically INVENTED neurosurgery.
Also, with regard to Cushing, as I have learned from wide reading and hard
personal experience anyone who does anything of importance is ultimately
found out (by someone) to an ogre who beat his wife (or his residents).
There are several reasons for this: 1) People who achieve a great deal
usually do so because they are convinced they are RIGHT. Churchill,
Cushing, Alexis Carrel, Michael DeBakey, Alexander of Macedon,
Michaelangelo....these were not timid souls or one of the gang type guys
who were low stress personalities. Maybe they would have gotten MORE done
had they been. But I for one doubt it. Since I didn't have to work with
them, I can be very philosophical and sanguine about these matters. 2)
Envy. While I am not in this class of individual I have some
understanding of what they went through. 3) Historical revisionism: look
at what happened to Christopher Columbus.
The part of the quote left out of from Spetzler was for brevity. In
hindsight I can see where this was not a good idea, but there were no evil
intentions.
7) If Tanya looked at the training materials Jerry assembled then
there is, in my opinion, even less excuse for her to have tried to pass
them off as protocols. I erred in saying that the manuals were removed in
June. Paul (who removed them) has corrected me on this and pointed out
that they were among the last items removed by him and were removed circa
November, or approximately 12 months after I left. While 11 months ain't
a year, hopefully we can all agree that it is close enough. I stand by my
(and Paul's) assessment about the contents of these manuals.
8) Tanya is correct that she was not given material related to
appropriate pH. Since I did not handle this exchange directly, all I can
do is ask Paul Wakfer to comment:
Comment by Paul Wakfer: Please see my comment in CRYONICS.POLITICS.
9) Some general comments: I have been very clear that I do not
advocate paralyzing emotionalism or vitriolic backbiting in solving
problems like this. I do, however, think they should be solved, and
thoroughly investigated by an outside agency.
I took the time to catalogue the problems with this suspension not to
try to be "mean", but specifically in response to assertions by Tanya,
Dave Pizer (off the net) and others that this suspension went better than
those since Jerry went down. I do not believe that was the case and I
wished to point out that there were problems, some of them the same
problems that have occurred before. I too resent slurs (direct or
indirect) on my performance particularly when they are not accurate.
I would like to thank Tanya for taking the time to respond to my
comments and to provide the information she has.
Finally, the point I have been trying to make from the start is the
issue of *what happended to this patient*.
Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=2346