X-Message-Number: 2347 From: (Thomas Donaldson) Subject: CRYONICS:re #2343 Date: Thu, 15 Jul 93 22:08:06 PDT To Steve Harris: I did not save my message; however somehow (perhaps I touched a nerve) your discussion of it does not and did not make sense to me. It is not that I think that merely reading a textbook will give the Alcor people the necessary skills, but that as I understand it the necessary preconditions for practicing or learning how to do suspensions are presently not available to Alcor personnel. One of those preconditions is the possibility of practicing. Of course, it would also help if there were instruction avail- able from people who can do much better. To learn all of the skills needed without any personal instruction is certainly one of the less efficient ways to go. I understand that you were alienated from the current suspension team because they treated you badly. (Second hand information at best!) I know that you will provide no instruction. I know that Mike, for reasons of his own, resigned from Alcor and refuses to work with Tanya. Whether those reasons are good or bad ones I cannot say because so far Mike has given no explanation, even privately.... and I respect Mike's honesty too, and would certainly listen to anything he said that was not just a simple diatribe. HOWEVER, neither you nor Mike are in a position to simply complain about the lack of skills of the Alcor team, and the fact that they have not developed them further... since clearly both of you are certainly in a position (yes, it might require great self-control and great abnegation, but that's not the point here) to help them to improve their abilities. Or are we all simply going to form into political factions and refuse to speak to one another? If the Board, choosing its policies behind closed doors, decided to dismiss Mike, then with all these problems it looks to me high time that they open those particular doors and tell us why. And if you were treated badly, then I would want to know the reasons. At present, if the silence on these issues means anything, they have no good reasons for either act. And if you wish to complain about their skills, then it would be far more to the point to tell us whether they REFUSED TO LISTEN to any instruction or help you offered, and whether they have simply NEGLECTED to try to remove the ban on animal experiments in the facility. It's one thing to be unskilled and trying hard to learn, and quite another to be unskilled and REFUSE to do anything to acquire those skills. It is never a sin to be ignorant. The sin comes with refusing to learn. I would certainly agree that the current Alcor team is IGNORANT... at least by comparison. But so far I have seen no discussion of whether or not they are trying to improve. And if you now refuse to help them, then you may have done so for (basically) personal reasons, or because they have shown no interest in the information you have to provide. I don't claim to know, but if I am to retract the basic points in what I said before, I'd want to hear from you about their refusal to learn --- not just about their ignorance. After all, I too would like Alcor to contract with Mike for suspension services, because I think he would do a better job. But my message wasn't about that. It was my opinion of the REAL issues, which don't have to do with mistakes in the operating room but about basic attitudes. There seems to be far too much pointing of fingers and too little consideration of reasons and underlying attitudes. If Mike refuses to work with Tanya, it can't simply be because she doesn't know very much about suspensions. And I will also say that accusing someone of reckless errors and ignorant conduct is hardly the best way to teach them to do better. It's certainly a good way to make an enemy, but not at all to make a friend or a willing student. I hope I have explained my point now, as much as I am able. If I put it wrongly then sorry. Best wishes, and long long life, Thomas -- Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=2347