X-Message-Number: 23630 Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 03:53:02 -0800 Subject: Re: Frozen Dead Guys From: Kennita Watson <> Charles Platt wrote: > Kennita Watson recommends: > > "Is anyone planning to go up to the Frozen Dead Guy Days? I > think they're a *great* idea, and I would pitch in money > towards travel expenses. I don't think Alcor (ACS, CI) would > have any trouble distinguishing their procedures from those > used to preserve Grandpa Bredo, and we might even get some > good press." > > Sorry, Kennita, I disagree. During the floor debate of the > Stump bill one representative said he sees no difference > between Alcor procedures and "the guy in Northern Arizona who > put his wife in a deep freeze" (discovered in Prescott, last > year). OK, so the rep was ignorant. Best we educate him. > Do-it-yourselfers such as the Prescott individual and Trygve > Bauge (formerly of Colorado) make cryonics seem ridiculous > and encourage hostile legislation. They constitute a threat > to anyone who takes cryonics seriously. I disagree. It is, however, incumbent upon us to correct misconceptions wherever we see them -- in the public eye -- rather than stewing about them among ourselves. We've seen how many cryonicists we can mobilize for a good cause; maybe we need to keep some on deck for future contacts. Suggestion: Have someone vet Letters to the Editor and such, to avoid the negative, abusive messages that were referred to in an earlier message. At least ask for a copy of each one to be sent to the Alcor (ACS, CI) office. BTW, it might be good for people from more than one organization to write. > > An appropriate response to "Dead Guy Days" would be a press > release condemning the act which started it and emphasizing > the differences between garage-body-freezers and modern > cryopreservation procedures. Please DO NOT condemn "the act which started it" -- that is, Trygve's freezing of his grandfather in dry ice. Rather, use it as an opportunity to open a dialogue. If someone says "What about the dead guy in the Tuff Shed?", point out that while his heart in the right place, we don't think Trygve's procedure stands nearly as much of a chance as the ones that the mainstream cryonics organizations use and why. He was warm longer, dry ice isn't cold enough to completely stop biological activity, blood has active oxygen to react, and whatever else. For each item, explain how Alcor works to reduce damage. But finally admit that we don't know how much of Bredo may remain -- if our patients can be recovered using the technology of 100 years from now, the technology of 500 years from now may be able to recover Bredo. Trygve even realizes that his grandfather's brain structure may be irrecoverable, but (according to his words on http://nederlandchamber.org/FrozenDeadGuyDays/trygve.htm): "As far as the mental content is concerned, one can foresee that this to a large part can be restored to a clone or a repaired body from external sources and by conventional teaching techniques. Some things are common for all human beings. Other things are common for all the people that lived at the same time. Other things are common for many people. Much of the above is already recorded in one way or another in public archives. And much of the rest can be restored from personal sources that we have maintained like pictures, films and writings. Furthermore, there are still people alive that has spent time with my grandfather or otherwise shared a lot of my grandfather s experience. Maybe such information too could be stored and later restored. Maybe someone would like to write his biography so that we easier can restore his memory if or when we bring him back?" We can also point out that we hope to preserve enough brain structure to keep memories intact and not require (so much) reteaching, etc., so that the original, rather than a person who simply looks like him/her, will be restored. Given that we can't crawl back under the bushel basket, it makes sense to me to embrace any commonality we have with those with similargoals. Nothing to stop us from promoting our own product, though. I'd say Bredo is trying to get his grandpa across the Pacific in a bucket. Alcor's old procedures are like a life raft, and its new ones like Columbus' ships. I'd much rather have the Q.E. II, but that's still to come. There are probably other analogies that regular folks can get their minds around. In any case, people like a festival, and Americans have a soft spot for long shots. Again, feel free to emphasize differences, but PLEASE don't condemn Trygve, and double-please don't give Nederland a hard time for the Frozen Dead Guy Days. I don't want to have to fragment things further by emphasizing to them and any media outlets that hear your griping that I, as a cryonicist in my own right, think they're a GREAT idea! Live long and prosper, Kennita -- Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery; none but ourselves can free our minds. -- Bob Marley, "Redemption Song" Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=23630