X-Message-Number: 23672
From: "Trygve B.Bauge" <>
Subject: Cryonic satelite facility in Norway or Colorado???
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:30:29 +0100

in Message #23646 "John de Rivaz" <> wrote:

>Why not have the facility in Norway? There is a growing interest in cryonics
>in Europe and I have even received email from people in the USA wanting to
>flee what they see as their litigious and paranoid society if there were a
>solid and reliable  facility somewhere in Europe. [ But I would caution
>anyone "wherever you go there *you* are." ]

>Aren't there Norwegian chambers of commerce that would be as accommodating
>as the Colorado ones? Presumably it was the personality and actions of
>Trygve that made the Colorado people so accommodating. Repeating the same
>actions in a country where xenophobes in positions of power can't evict him
>would seem better than "beating his head against a brick wall" in Colorado.

>If you want somewhere where the native language is English, well England and
>Norway are  in the EC and I don't think that xenophobes in positions of
>power are able to stop people moving between countries within the EC these
>days. England also has more signed up cryonicists than any country other
>than the USA as far as I am aware.

Trygve's answer:


Until the proposed clean burning gas powered electrical plants (that as a side 
effect would produce large quantities of liquid air gasses and dryice) come on 
line,
until this happens, liquid nitrogen will still be expensive in Norway.

The country is expensive, the cost of living and labour is high, compared to 
other countries.

There is a value added tax of 24% too, that doesn't apply to funeral expenses, 
but does apply to liquid nitrogen, unless we somehow get around it, by defining 
liquid nitrogen as a burial expense or by owning the production plant ourselves,
or getting a political extemption.


The best in the longrun might be to invest in equipment that produces or recyles
liquid nitrogen.

Such an inhouse overhead expense would only be a saving with a large number of 
patients.

One would thus expect to pay relatively more for liquid nitrogen the first few 
years in Norway, than what one presently have to pay in the United States.


Water and wind is plenty, however, so it would be fairly inexpensive to secure 
local electricty.
cogeneration from small streams is quite popular in many places.


The best might be to buy shares in Norsk Hydro and the Swedish AGA, two 
companies that already produce liquid nitrogen in Norway and Sweden,

that way one could possibly secure inexpensive supplies of liquid nitrogen in 
business parks next door to the production plants.


Norway is an English speaking country, all learn English in addition to 
Norwegian.

And in many aspects we are as American as the Americans, everyone having 
relatives in the United States.


As far as travel within EU,this is only free within the Schengen area, of which 
England and Ireland are not yet a part.

In most of the rest of Europe including Norway and most of the EU, one can 
travel freely without the need of a passport or visa.

However, passports are often required as a proof of identity when renting cars 
etc. and it is required when traveling between Norway and Great Britan/Ireland

A cryonic facility could be set up in Norway.

The best would be to build a terrain integrated facility next door to one of the
liquid nitrogen producing plants.

Or to build such a facility or rent place in any industrial park with a good 
road access, near exisiting delivery routes.
One might consider acces to local streams or windy locations too,

though this would more likely apply if one was to select a location along the 
western coast near any proposed gas powered powerplant.
since there is less wind and water around our capital.


As far as local counties are concerned, the capital or one of the surrounding 
counties would work.

and I think I have good relations with the local population in several such 
counties, being in the local media icebathing several times a year.

The local population is also well aware of my grandfather's case, with the local
and national media frequently having covered this too,
and other of my ventures. 


At some point it might be of value to set up a generic venture plan and 
calculate the 5 year profit and loss projections for a facility here.


Our present primeminister is from a religious party that is against cloning 
human beings, and very restrictive on new medical procedures.

That party is however not in the majority, and this week they seem to be losing 
a battle in parliament to a majority that wants some cloning for medical 
reasons.
 

With the right approach it should be possible to both store cells and human 
beings in Norway, 

However most issues in Norway are politicized, so we might have to do a bit of 
organizing to presecure the necessary political support: e.g. by proposing a 
project, and working with a few political parties it could be done, we would 
just have to ask for a county that wants our presence, and having found such, we
will have to ask what they would require of us to find a cryonic facility 
acceptable. There are always counties that are eager to attract business and 
jobs, particularly in the boondocks. Usually the projects end up with a lot of 
government funding too.

And once one has such a local approval, then the local administration would work
with us to press for central or national approval, That is usually the way 
things are done in Norway, a little cumbersome, and everything takes years and 
years to accomplish, which is why I moved to the United States in the first 
place :-)

In the meantime I would recommend that we rather look at Colorado, then Norway.

Particularly since the liquid Nitrogen is less expensive there, and property 
rights are stronger, and afterall that is where we already have the Frozen dead 
guy days and the local and political support.

Trygve Bauge

Life-Extension Systems, Universal Liberty, The Global Village Project, 
The Norw. Icebathing Club, Action 88/Residental Assoc. at Hovsetervn. 88
Trygve Bauge,  pb. 59 Hovseter, N-0705 Oslo, Norway. Ph(47)22-14-80-78
Visit Trygve's Meta Portal (tm) www.trygve.bauge.com  

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