X-Message-Number: 23675 From: "Trygve B.Bauge" <> Subject: If this is not helpful and accomodating, then what is??? Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:28:26 +0100 From: "Stephen J. Van Sickle" <> wrote: >On Wed, 2004-03-17 at 04:00, John de Rivaz wrote: >> Presumably it was the personality and actions of >> Trygve that made the Colorado people so accommodating. >They are *not* accommodating. Cryonics is *illegal* in Nederland. >Grandpa was just "grandfathered" in when the law was passed (pun purely >intentional). Making lemonade out of lemons, they started a festival to >draw in tourist dollars. > >Might make for a fun day, but don't expect them to actually take >anything seriously, and if they do, don't expect them to be helpful. > >http://www.frozendeadguy.com/fdg/saga.htm Some people on the cryonet is desperately trying to present everything in the worst possible light, without checking their facts. What about asking those of us who know the situation, before jumping to negative conclusions? and before posting erroneous messages? No one is denying that the townboard in Nederland passed an ordinance in 1994, banning storage of frozen biological material within the town limits. However, as my lawyer so elloquently pointed out at a hearing at the time: the ordinance is overbroad and unconstitutional and would not stand to be challenged in court, It would among other things outlaw the storage of broccoli in peoples home freezers. .-) It is an ordinance with no legal standing when it comes to cryonics. The ordinance doesn't mention cryonics and has never been enforced, and when the locals understood they might face a costly legal battle to defend the townboards attempt to ban cryonics, a local political action commitee was formed to fight the townboard. A kind of save our taxpayers money committee. When grandfather is grandfathered in, this was over the objection of the 1994 townboard, who actually wanted him moved or thawed out. When the public rose up and stopped the town board, I think their action was both accomodating and helpful, and when Stephen J. Van Sickle claims otherwise he is just uninformed and ignorant, and for some unknown reason out to jump to his guns. Stephen J. Van Sickle, you might want to check in with my good friend Jerry van Sickle in Boulder Colorado before opening your mouth on this case again. As a result of the popular upraising the townboard was replaced at the next election, and we have never since had any problem with the town board. The same mayor who proposed the ban was reelected several year's later and was quoted all over the media 1 year ago, that he himself invited the frozen Martinots to be moved from France to Nederland Colorado if these could no longer be stored in France. The offer was passed on to Martinot's son in France, but he has so far not selected to accept the offer, and what the present situation is for his parents is not known, maybe someone on the cryonet knows? The Mayor at a press conference even proposed that the French couple could be placed in my facility, even without asking me up front. He got my approval afterwards of course. Already in the spring of 1994, the local newspaper the Mountainear did an opinion poll that showed that 71 % of the town population was in favour of letting us keep my grandfather in town. And lots of town people have been quoted ever since saying things like "If one frozen guy is good for the town, 2 might be even better", or "Ted Williams should be moved here" etc... It is no question in my mind that the town would be accomodating if one made a serious offer to build a local facility. AND IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT NEITHER THE COUNTY NOR THE STATE BANNED CRYONICS IN 1994, ACTUALLY BOTH CAME DOWN ON THE SIDE OF MY GRANDFATHER, AND NEITHER HAVE ANY LAWS ON THE BOOKS AGAINST CRYONICS. Anyway the town of Nederland is a small town with 1500 people, and the remaining issue is more one of zoning, e.g. where to place a cryonic facility, rather than whether or not to have one. Most likely a facility would end up not within the relatively small city, but just outside the city limits on county and not city jurisdiction. And this because the city is small and residential, while the surrounding county area have more old mining and gravel pit like areas fit for business parks. The access for large liquid nitrogen trucks has to be taken into account too, As far as price on liquid nitrogen is concerned, one might be better off by building not in the mountains but down on the prarie but still within Boulder county, or maybe even nearer the liquid air plant in Denver for that matter. If one build in the mountain one would have to buy a small liquid nitrogen truck, or go and pick up bottles of liquid nitrogen, since the large delivery trucks with 18 wheels might have a problem getting up in the mountains. As long as one use smaller transportation tanks than 18 wheel trucks, then Nederland and our site would work fine. Not just did the town population assisted by my lawyer, stop the town board and secure that my grandfather is grandfathered in, the chamber of commerce annual festival is also raising funds towards my grandfather's upkeep, tour money, and procceds from books, raffles, movie showings etc, not to mention all the good will that is generated and the value of maintaining the case in the public eye. The chamber is also assisting me in finding local contractors to maintain the buildings on the site. And they maintain a slush fund for my grandfather. Several local business have contributed lots of money and other assistance. The Tuff shed people has donated a large Tuff shed worth several thousand dollars, with electrical light, that houses my grandfather Just a few weeks ago they even paid for having the shed repainted, in time for the festival of course.. Other companies like airgas in Denver frequently contribute dry ice. A local authour who is writing a murder mystery book called "Murder in the Tuff shed" just donated a new thermometer worth USD 200. A local radio station Kfox is an annual sponsor. A local film company got one or two 5000 dollar grants from Tuff shed to make an award winning movie about my grandfather's situation. etc. etc., Neigbours and the local police keep an eye on the place. If this is not helpful and accomodating then what is???? And the state and local media has kept touring the facility annually for 10 years now. Radio station Kfox even organized a 101 year birthday party for my grandfather complete with a birthday cake. Locally Frozen dead Guy Days is larger then Fourth of July, and attracts broad and positive coverage both up front and during the events from ALL THE LARGER NEWSPAPERS IN THE DENVER/BOULDER AREA, year after year. IT IS EXTREMELY VALUABLE TO HAVE POSITIVE MEDIA COVERAGE AS AN ANNUAL TRADITION, FROM THE SAME MEDIA OUTLETS YEAR AFTER YEAR, IN A SERIOUS AND 100% POSITIVE WAY, Most other cryonic facilites do not experience the value of repeat large scale positive media coverage as a tradition. And most do experience that the media coverage they do get often is combined with attacks. You won't find anything in the local media coverage even vaguely resembling an attack. There is no interviews with people trying to attack the whole thing, which usually is a main part of the media coverage other cryonics facilities get. In additional to the annual repeat coverage, we also have the sporadic visits from various national and international production companies, anniversaries, authors etc. etc. Bo seems to take someone along quite a few times each year. Local media usually comes along up front of the festival too, to write lengthy articles up front of this. Or as the journalist from the Denver post started her letter to me with, before this year's festival: "Hi Trygve, It is this time of the year again." To find the attacks one has to read Cryonet :-) which is kind of strange taken into account how much the same people complain about the attacks on cryonics. Sincerely, Trygve Life-Extension Systems, Universal Liberty, The Global Village Project, The Norw. Icebathing Club, Action 88/Residental Assoc. at Hovsetervn. 88 Trygve Bauge, pb. 59 Hovseter, N-0705 Oslo, Norway. Ph(47)22-14-80-78 Visit Trygve's Meta Portal (tm) www.trygve.bauge.com Content-Type: text/html; [ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ] Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=23675