X-Message-Number: 23677
From: "Trygve B.Bauge" <>

Subject: Request for a moderated and unmoderated version of cryonet. Response to
Charles Platt, part II
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:54:22 +0100

Charles Platt wrote:

>His history of his "noble fight"
>to freeze his father is of course self-serving and completely
>omits the real personal reasons why so many organizations and
>activists refused to help him.


Really?
I will admit that it is self serving to defend oneself,
but I don't see this as a vice,



So who are these many organizations and activists that allegedly have refused to
help me?
and what are the real personal reasons for this?

I would like to know.


It can't be ACS, because they still regard me as a member in spite of the fact 
that I haven't paid membership dues for 14 years now,
Jim Yount kept my facility designs as pictures on his office wall for years.



It can't be Trans Time because they once selected me to their board of directors
for a one year term, and when I moved my grandfather to Colorado 
it was because I wanted it, while they would have prefered to keep him.



It can't be Ettinger or C.I. either because they published my facility designs,
and Ettinger even contributed economically to my defence when the town board 
threatened to thaw out my grandfather back in 1994.


It can't be the Venturists because they want to rent a boot at next year's 
Frozen Dad Guy days,


I know several people at Alcor too, and I don't seem to be in a quarrel with 
them either,

having visited once, and almost having brought about the first cryonic 
suspension from England, something that didn't pan out when the fiancee of the 
diseased didn't want her boyfriend suspended when Alcor of course couldn't 
promise to bring him back in her life time, 

It is not me who complains about not being supported by other cryonisists,
I think I have received a lot of support from such over the years too.
  


It seems to me that most of the attacks come from people who are talkers rather
than doers in the cryonics movement.


Anyway the cryonics movement is small, and I have over the years had support 
from more mainstream media outlets and political activists and politicians and 
people and businesses than there are in the whole cryonics movement.


And as we have seen in Colorado, it sems somewhat strange to attack me for not 
having received support,
since the support has been overwhelming. Thankyou everyone in Colorado.


I have never asked for any other cryonics group to store my grandfather for 
free,


but have actually over the years turned down several offers of having him stored
elsewhere,

either because it was too expensive or I would have had to donate my 
grandfather's corpse to the organization 
or I deemed the new organization unsafe. 

As far as personal reasons for not assisting me,
maybe Charles Platt could give his?

Maybe he at some point has been involved in an organization that later failed 
and that I luckily didn't want to move my grandfather too?
I am just wondering.

Charles Platt wrote:
>Since I don't want to get into that endless topic, I'll
>mention just one indicator. CryoNet's limits on the size and
>number of daily posts were imposed as a desperation measure
>in response to the persistent and relentless abuse of this
>list by one person: Trygve Bauge.

well that is a truth with certain modifications:



You are refering to the year I tried to assist a lady in Australia who wanted to
dig up her recently burried father.

Well I do each year receive a request or two for assistance with post mortem 
suspensions.

And I usually assist, and on the condition of full openness with the media.

I came under an enormous attack here at cryonet,

and didn't have the time to rebut all the strange and unjust attacks at the 
time,
In stead I focused on the venture at hand,
It didn't pan out since she didn't get her mother's or her sister's approval,
Case closed.


However I find it strange that there is no limitations on how many people who 
can attack you here at cryonet,
but that a limit was imposed on my responses to an almost unlimited attack.


As far as calling my response to unjust attacks for persistent and relentless 
abuse of the list,
what do you then call the many unjust attacks, in the first place? 

Bottom line is that I haven't on average posted more than anyone else,

though there has been certain peaks where I have decided to keep the list 
continuously informed about
the turn of events. 

My motivation has been that openness would benefit both the case at hand and 
cryonics in the long run.




I can live with the 4 posts a day limit, but can you folks live with a limit on

unfair below the belt attacks on me, to a total of 4 a day, for all of you seen
together?
and even when it storms as heaviest around me? :-)


Anyway,  no mainstream media has ever attacked me for assisting in post mortem 
requests.

I don't promise to deliver more than I can, and I make it clear that the end 

result might never be full reanimation, and most likely will be full anihilation
anyway.



But by operating with a series of scenarios from  total anihilation to cloning,
repair, reanimation and rejuveantion, 

I am not just offering one product: the pursuit of full reanimation, that most 
people still look upon as unrealistic at best.


I am rather coming across as trying to assist people in getting the best out of
an adverse situation,
and that is something people and the media can relate to.


Besides I am not alone having as a goal to eventually systematically dig up 
people that have been buried (and preserve any DNA fragments for future 
cloning).

I here some of you say Oh no, there he goes again, now we will certainly be 
banned. Let us shut him down or rescue ourselves by attacking him .....

Strange then that such attacks doesn't seem to come from the general public or 
the media that knows me and treats me seriously.

All Christians have resurrection as a goal in one way or another, some even 
literally in the flesh,
and I have never come across any religious group attacking me for this goal.


As a matter of fact I got a lot of possible feedback at a christian conference I
attended. 


People said I was trying to do myself, what others only through faith hoped that
would be done for them.


I tend to think that all the religious aspirations people have like 
reincarnation and resurrection, will not come true by themselves, but only if 
enough of us set out to actually develop end implement the practical 
technologies required.



Digging up burried people is quite common actually. Graves and bodies are being
moved for all kind of reasons both cultural, political, personal and legal.


And the authorities usually accept this as long as the next of kin agrees. It is
quite common to move people that died far away from home, back to some family 
or national site,


or to gather family or group members in one site once such has been established.

And over the last year or so the newspapers have had positive articles about 

people being dug up in search of the Spanish flu virus (I think they even found
it) , or to find out if some royals really were related. 

or to find out if a corps alleged to be of Columbus, really was who it was 

alleged to be. Then of course there are forensic reasons to reexamine the cause
of death.

When royals can have their anchestors dug up and examined then regular people 
can too. All it takes is moving to a new burial ground, and to take a simple 
tissue or bone sample in the process.

>As for the people of Nederland, I have no quarrel with them.
>They have embraced Bauge as a kind of lovable crank. Of
>course, since he was deported, they haven't had to deal with
>him personally.

--Charles Platt


With my years icebathing I have heard more synonyms for cracy and crank than I 
ever thought existed.

It doesn't offend me. I just respond by saying that I am not crazy, just a 
little more daring than most people.

You know the free and the brave bit in the anthem. That I like to live life to 
the fullest.

And that one never gets to old to have fun. The goal is after all not just 
life-extension
but joyful life-extension: 

to experience happiness furthermost into the future, the highest peaks of 
happiness along the way,

and otherwise as much fun as one can get away with, all in that order of 
priority.



Life would certainly be poor if one only was to do what the most sour and cranky
among other people find respectable and acceptable.


Luckily happiness is not dependent upon approval by others nor on approval from
one's adversaries.



By the way it was first after I got deported that the people in Nederland really
had to deal with me.

It was then that the townboard tried to thaw out my grandfather, and I had to 
use USD 3000 in long distance phone bills,


pluss unlimited access to internet, plus one of the best lawyers in Colorado to
drum up the support that overcame the  
townboard and led to it not being reelected.

Of course the same mayor was reelected a few years later but then favoring the 
Frozen Dead Guy Days.



I am presently a member of the local chamber of commerce, and they assist me in
maintaining my grandfather and the house and property,

and I probably deal more with people in Nederland Colorado each year, than I 
deal with other cryonisists. 

Then of course I have received more support from the people in Colorado than I 
have received from other cryonisists too.
and non of them has shown so much anger and bile as Charles Platt has.


In conclusion Charles you seem to present a lot of attacks that do not hold 
water, and your emphasiss does not seem to be on truth or verification, but 
simply

to deliver attacks for the purpose of attacking. You seem driven by a will to 
present any attacking statement, with full disregard for whether or not it is 
true or not.
Most of the time I do not have the time to rebut such bullshit. 


So why are you wasting so much of your time on attacking others Charles, what 
about going out and creating some value you yourself for a change?


I hereby request that attacks on other people be separated from the regular 
cryonet and placed in a separate thread,

I would even be willing to pay an annual contribution for a moderator to 
separate out the attacks,

so that these can stop cluttering the list. Then one could also easier ignore 
attacks from people that do not contribute anything positive.



This is my fourth post today, so I guess I have to wait until tomorrow with 
rebutting  the many unjust attacks that recently have been posted.

For the record there is now a backlog of attacks that I have not been able to 
answer because of the limit on 4 posts a day,

It is a little unfair that the limit for attacks on me are not set to 4 a day 
too!!!


Sincerely,

Trygve Bauge


Life-Extension Systems, Universal Liberty, The Global Village Project, 
The Norw. Icebathing Club, Action 88/Residental Assoc. at Hovsetervn. 88
Trygve Bauge,  pb. 59 Hovseter, N-0705 Oslo, Norway. Ph(47)22-14-80-78
Visit Trygve's Meta Portal (tm) www.trygve.bauge.com  




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