X-Message-Number: 23880 Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:35:58 -0400 From: Thomas Donaldson <> Subject: CryoNet #23869 - #23877 Hi everyone again. I will point out (for both Bob Ettinger and Peter Merel) that the underlying idea of constructive mathematics consists exactly of using a system in which proofs by contradiction aren't allowed: essentially (as they agree) what Goedel used for his theorem. (Readers can guess that I like constructive mathematics). If something is not false, we cannot conclude that it is true. And if not true, vice versa. Incidentally, there is a bit more to Goedel's theorem than simply that. After all, it helps to know just how much abilities a formal system must have in order to construct "unprovable" statements. Moreover, formal systems give us one way to help us avoid logical mistakes in what we say or decide. That they also have faults should not alone convince us not to use them. What tool of ours lacks faults? (And yes, I meant what I said when I said to Bob Ettinger that his statements would get lots of mathematicians upset at him. I hope that he noticed that I did NOT say ALL mathematicians. And I will point out that I came down to a conclusion with which he agreed). For David Pizer, I will simply say that I plan to review a nice book on consciousness (presumably what he means by awareness) by GM Edelman and G Tononi for PHYSICAL IMMORTALITY. Both of these authors are neurobiologists. Their book attempts to make the relevant ideas and knowledge about how our brains produce awareness accessible to readers who don't want to read tons of scientific literature on the subject. Best wishes and long long life to all, Thomas Donaldson Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=23880